Author Topic: When would you arrive? (Read 2606 times)

Rose Red · « **Reply #30 on:** November 26, 2018, 07:55:18 am »

Quote from: Jem on November 26, 2018, 07:34:57 am

Quote from: Rose Red on November 26, 2018, 07:28:14 am
The wording is still a bit confusing to me. Just say to be there by 1:00pm next time. Next time prepare some appetizers (even if it's just one plate of cheese and crackers or a bowl of chips) in case they flake out again, but you can never have enough food on thanksgiving if they actually bring their appetizers too.

There's nothing you can do about this past event now anyway, except learn about people and how to handle invitations for next time. You may not want to invite some people again. Or you have to be very literal for others. It's useless to ask/say if other people were rude. You can only control your own reaction and decide what to do in the future.

I can’t speak for the OP, but as I said earlier, the message when my family uses similar phrasing is NOT “be there by 1:00.” The message is exactly what the OP said - to come any time after noon knowing that we will eat as early as 1:00. I wouldn’t expect people to waltz into my house and hang up their coats and sit down and expect to eat in 30 seconds if they showed up at 1:00. That would be super rude unless they were coming from work or something. To essentially show up just for the food is rude to the host and everyone else, in my opinion.

Like you said, that's your family and they know the score. The OP's family sounded confused to me. Is this the first time or are they late all the time? And like I also said, there's no use calling them rude if you can't change them. Don't invite them next time or be very literal.

Hmmm · « **Reply #31 on:** November 26, 2018, 08:45:36 am »

Quote from: katiekat2009 on November 25, 2018, 05:04:15 pm

I probably would have arrived about 12:45 in case you served closer to 1 than 2. I think DD was inconsiderate in that she expected 19 other people to adjust their schedule to hers. You probably should have served at 12, no later than 1, if she wanted to leave by 3:00. And, she could have just let her boyfriend go ahead to his own T'giving without her.

I don't believe my DD was inconsiderate at all. I've often inquired about family member's additional plans on holidays and worked to find the best time that fits everyone's schedule. I've moved Tday lunch to Tday dinner to accommodate a nephew's schedule and I've moved Christmas Dinner to Christmas lunch to accommodate my inlaws needing to leave town. I start inquiring about everyone's plans in early November and other than DD, no one who planned to attend our meal as their primary meal that day had something else scheduled. And since I am the one hosting, I don't see how I could be criticized for deciding on the schedule of the day.

Even with the meal being delayed to the latest time of 2pm, they still had a full hour to eat the meai, have dessert and pack up some left overs before heading out.

Pattycake · « **Reply #32 on:** November 26, 2018, 08:59:11 am »

To me, "serving lunch between 1 and 2" sounds sort of like it would be buffet. Everything would be out between 1 and 2 for people to eat, then you'd be starting to tidy up. The question posed was, when would you arrive? I would arrive before 1, probably 12:30, But I can see how people would come later. OP's family needs concrete times, especially since there are chronic late people. In this case, if I don't know exactly when the food will be on the table, I would say to come by 12:30 as I was planning on serving lunch at one, but you know how it is with turkey!

Jem · « **Reply #33 on:** November 26, 2018, 09:06:53 am »

Even if this had been a buffet that was "open" between 1:00 and 2:00, I still think it would be rude to show up right at 1:00 and certainly rude to show up AFTER 1:00. It strikes me as treating the event as a business transaction or fast food situation rather than a family holiday gathering.

It sounds like the OP's situation was going to have issues no matter what though. From the backstory, her relatives don't show up when specific times are provided either so saying "please be here by 12:30" would not have resulted in people actually showing up at 12:30.

I think especially when there are various people who have various places to be on particular days it is important to be prompt. The best way to teach people to be prompt is to stick to the stated schedule. It may cause friction in the short term, but hopefully over time people will learn that dinner will be served when the host said it was going to be served.....not when a person decided to finally show up.

lowspark · « **Reply #34 on:** November 26, 2018, 09:08:24 am »

I don't really think it's necessary to say what time the food will be served, but instead just give an expected arrival time.

When I host a meal, I always invite people for about an hour or so before the meal will be served. That gives everyone time to arrive, socialize a bit, and maybe have a cocktail. So in this case I would have probably just asked everyone to arrive by 12:30. If the food is ready at 1, you can serve right away or wait 15 more minutes if people are having a good time. If the food isn't ready till 2, the social hour stretches a bit but that's certainly forgivable.

In the case of your sister getting tired quickly, I'd probably just give her the heads up separately that the food might be served anywhere between 1 and 2 so she can plan appropriately.

I really think that this is a "know your audience" kind of thing. You mentioned, "I adore my inlaws and have learned over the last 25 years to "deal" with the issue of their arrival on time" so you know that they tend to be late, right? So yeah, never let them bring appetizers, and give them a specific time to arrive that builds in the anticipation that they will be late or come at the last minute.

But to answer your original question, I would have arrived at about 12:15.

DaDancingPsych · « **Reply #35 on:** November 26, 2018, 09:21:02 am »

I would have arrived after noon. 12:15pm maybe? Now if I was your sister, I would arrive just prior to 1:00pm, as that is the earliest that you are saying that the food would be served and would allow me a bit more rest time.

I agree with others. Those who are always late would not be contributing appetizers, as they would likely not arrive on time. And I would edit the information to them and ask them to arrive at a specific time that is padded a bit in the hopes that they would arrive at an appropriate time.

Growing up I had an aunt and uncle who were always an hour (if not more) late to things. My parents purposefully told them an hour earlier and they were still usually late. I honestly cannot recall a single time that they were ever on time... in fact, my mom claims that they were late for their own wedding!!!

pjeans · « **Reply #36 on:** November 26, 2018, 10:04:56 am »

Quote from: Pattycake on November 26, 2018, 08:59:11 am

To me, "serving lunch between 1 and 2" sounds sort of like it would be buffet. Everything would be out between 1 and 2 for people to eat, then you'd be starting to tidy up. The question posed was, when would you arrive? I would arrive before 1, probably 12:30, But I can see how people would come later. OP's family needs concrete times, especially since there are chronic late people. In this case, if I don't know exactly when the food will be on the table, I would say to come by 12:30 as I was planning on serving lunch at one, but you know how it is with turkey!

That's exactly how I would have interpreted it, where food was buffet-style and out from 1-2. I'd also assume that there was socializing before, during, and after the meal so someone arriving at 12:55 or even 1:30 may be there for socializing afterwards; not necessarily running as soon as the meal was over. From my interpretation I think it would be strange to show up at 1:55, since the food would be getting cleared about that time.

So, yeah, I think you would have done better to give both an upper and a lower limit to the arrival time: "arrive between 12 and 1" to help with all of our different interpretations.

VorFemme · « **Reply #37 on:** November 26, 2018, 10:58:49 am »

Quote from: Hanna on November 26, 2018, 06:53:36 am

I suspect if one these people who have trouble understanding the concept of “the meal will begin between 1 and 2” were told “The local bank is giving away a million dollars to each person present some time between 1 and 2” they would get there before 1 without any confusion.

Chronically late people with no medical reason just think their time is more valuable than everyone else’s.

Or just don't *think* is what I've observed a few times - they know that dinner starts at X, but they just don't think about how long it can take to drive from their house to the place where they'll be eating and don't allow enough time for the trip. Or allow any time at all for "things to happen" - such as detours due to construction, needing to stop to get fuel, pick up a hostess gift, accidents, car trouble, or the five year old throwing up in the back seat (their travel clothes and my wrap ended up in the aunt's washing machine & dryer during dinner - we had planned to change them into a holiday outfit for the dinner & photos with great-grandmother).

I've heard other people talking about trips they're taking as if the shortest time it has ever taken them to get to *Grandma's House* (or wherever) is how long they plan on it taking from then on - never mind that that one time the weather was perfect, traffic was light, they had a full tank of gas, and *nothing* happened to cause delays. The next time they go, they'll still allow the same amount of time for travel even if they need to stop & get gas AND it's raining, too. Because "it's only a twenty minute drive"!

QueenFaninCA · « **Reply #38 on:** November 26, 2018, 02:10:12 pm »

Quote from: lakey on November 25, 2018, 10:56:10 pm

Quote
There was not a specific meal time. You can argue about interpretation and meaning and what the guests should have known or understood but the OP said she gave a time range, between 1 and 2. A range is not a specific meal time.
When you are cooking and serving a roasted turkey, a sweet potato casserole, stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, a vegetable dish, along with cranberries, rolls, and dessert, it is almost impossible to give a specific meal time when everything will be ready and hot. Therefore you give a range. "We will be eating between 1 and 2, depending on when the food is ready." You can't say specifically, "We'll eat at 1:30," because there is a good chance that everything won't be ready. You have to leave the turkey in the oven until its internal temperature reaches a certain temperature. Once everything is ready and hot, you have everyone move to the dining room table. If you wait 20 minutes for someone who is "on their way", then you will have wasted a couple of days of work on a meal that is cold and unappetizing.

A professional chef might be able to give an exact serving time for a meal like this. I can't, and I don't think most home cooks can. Sometimes people who haven't prepared a meal like this for a large number of guests have no idea the amount of planning, work, and expense that goes into it. If guests are a little confused by "We're serving lunch between 1 and 2,depending on when food is ready", they should err on the side of consideration for the host who is doing all of the work and expense, not their own convenience. It's pretty obvious that the range is because the host doesn't know exactly when the food will be ready, not because you can show up as late as 2.

I'm not a professional chef but I do manage to serve my Christmas goose with all the trimmings within two minutes of the time I said dinner would be ready. It's not that hard, it just requires some planning to make sure everything gets in the oven or the pot at the right time. I have a big spreadsheet that has the timeline to make sure I don't get to the point in the recipe where it says "add chopped onion" and realize the onion isn't chopped yet.

But to the OP, I thought it was clear that guests could arrive any time after noon and the meal would be served at some point between 1 and 2 with the exact time not known in advance (and could be 1pm). I'd probably arrive around 12:10 and recommend to someone wanting to minimize time there to arrive just before 1pm.

Hmmm · « **Reply #39 on:** November 26, 2018, 03:12:35 pm »

Quote from: QueenFaninCA on November 26, 2018, 02:10:12 pm

Quote from: lakey on November 25, 2018, 10:56:10 pm
Quote
There was not a specific meal time. You can argue about interpretation and meaning and what the guests should have known or understood but the OP said she gave a time range, between 1 and 2. A range is not a specific meal time.
When you are cooking and serving a roasted turkey, a sweet potato casserole, stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, a vegetable dish, along with cranberries, rolls, and dessert, it is almost impossible to give a specific meal time when everything will be ready and hot. Therefore you give a range. "We will be eating between 1 and 2, depending on when the food is ready." You can't say specifically, "We'll eat at 1:30," because there is a good chance that everything won't be ready. You have to leave the turkey in the oven until its internal temperature reaches a certain temperature. Once everything is ready and hot, you have everyone move to the dining room table. If you wait 20 minutes for someone who is "on their way", then you will have wasted a couple of days of work on a meal that is cold and unappetizing.

A professional chef might be able to give an exact serving time for a meal like this. I can't, and I don't think most home cooks can. Sometimes people who haven't prepared a meal like this for a large number of guests have no idea the amount of planning, work, and expense that goes into it. If guests are a little confused by "We're serving lunch between 1 and 2,depending on when food is ready", they should err on the side of consideration for the host who is doing all of the work and expense, not their own convenience. It's pretty obvious that the range is because the host doesn't know exactly when the food will be ready, not because you can show up as late as 2.

I'm not a professional chef but I do manage to serve my Christmas goose with all the trimmings within two minutes of the time I said dinner would be ready. It's not that hard, it just requires some planning to make sure everything gets in the oven or the pot at the right time. I have a big spreadsheet that has the timeline to make sure I don't get to the point in the recipe where it says "add chopped onion" and realize the onion isn't chopped yet.

But to the OP, I thought it was clear that guests could arrive any time after noon and the meal would be served at some point between 1 and 2 with the exact time not known in advance (and could be 1pm). I'd probably arrive around 12:10 and recommend to someone wanting to minimize time there to arrive just before 1pm.

I too can usually get the meal contents we are making all together at a very specific time. This year I was a little more concerned because my DH would be frying 2 turkeys (have to get one done and then put the other on) and I was also smoking a stuffed pork loin and a duck. If you've ever smoked anything, you know you have to go by temp and not time. Depending on weather and a whole bunch of other factors, timing can vary by 20 min to an hour depending on what you are cooking. And then, invariably, someone arrives with an unexpected fridge cold casserole that needs to be heated, someone else wants to decant a couple of bottles of wine right before dinner, someone else wants a lesson in making gravy as they visit with me in the kitchen, and someone else arrives with a dessert that requires me to find a specific type of dish to be unmolded onto. (All real examples from this year). So while all of my dishes may be ready, dealing with everyone else's last minute needs can create a delay.

AtHomeRose · « **Reply #40 on:** November 26, 2018, 03:53:35 pm »

Quote from: Jem on November 25, 2018, 08:52:17 pm

Quote from: AtHomeRose on November 25, 2018, 07:46:00 pm
Quote from: Jem on November 25, 2018, 06:09:54 pm
I am struggling to understand how people are thinking showing up at 2:00 is appropriate given the “dinner will be served between 1:00 and 2:00.” This isn’t a breakfast buffet at a hotel serving from 6:00-8:00 am. This is a gathering of friend and family and the host specifically said dinner would be served starting at some point BETWEEN one and two. There was a specific meal time provided. I am not a cook, but I know enough to grasp that especially for certain types of meals and certainly for large groups of people one cannot always pinpoint exactly when dinner will be ready to be served. But this likely isn’t box Mac & Cheese where you know it will take about 8 minutes to prepare and serve.

When people go to a restaurant surely they grasp that their meals may be to the table in 10 minutes or perhaps closer to 45 minutes depending on the type of restaurant and what they order?

There was not a specific meal time. You can argue about interpretation and meaning and what the guests should have known or understood but the OP said she gave a time range, between 1 and 2. A range is not a specific meal time.

I think it would be appropriate to show up at 2:00 to an invitation worded like this because when I have used this wording or received an invitation with this wording it has meant we would sit down to eat when all the guest where there and the food was ready between 1 and 2. That means I can get there at 2 and still be on time to sit down and eat.

I don’t understand why you would think this? The invitation made it clear that the meal would be served possibly at 1:00, but between 1:00 and 2:00. Why would you show up at 2:00?

I am telling you I think this BECAUSE when I have used this wording in an invitation, I have meant food will be served when all the guest are here and food is ready between the two times I listed on the invitation. It is also what has been meant when my group of friends and family use this wording in an invitation. I think it because that is what I mean when I say it, I would not consider guests arriving to my meal at 2 late.

It is obviously not your interpretation of the wording and it is clearly not what Humm wanted to communicate with the invitation, but it is the interpretation I and the people I socialize with would make.

I think the take away message is when you want people there by a specific time give a specific time. If you are not comfortable listing a specific meal time (and fair enough cooking a large meal you only cook once a year can be daunting with exact timing) give a specific arrival time. If Hmmm’s original text had said “We are looking forward to seeing everyone for Thanksgiving, please arrive by 1:00, but feel free to come as early as noon”. I don’t think there would be any confutation or argument that those arriving at 2 are rude. But if you list a time range you are going to get different interpretations and people showing up at the end of the range thinking/feeling they are on time.

Hanna · « **Reply #41 on:** November 26, 2018, 03:56:29 pm »

Quote from: VorFemme on November 26, 2018, 10:58:49 am

Quote from: Hanna on November 26, 2018, 06:53:36 am
I suspect if one these people who have trouble understanding the concept of “the meal will begin between 1 and 2” were told “The local bank is giving away a million dollars to each person present some time between 1 and 2” they would get there before 1 without any confusion.

Chronically late people with no medical reason just think their time is more valuable than everyone else’s.

Or just don't *think* is what I've observed a few times - they know that dinner starts at X, but they just don't think about how long it can take to drive from their house to the place where they'll be eating and don't allow enough time for the trip. Or allow any time at all for "things to happen" - such as detours due to construction, needing to stop to get fuel, pick up a hostess gift, accidents, car trouble, or the five year old throwing up in the back seat (their travel clothes and my wrap ended up in the aunt's washing machine & dryer during dinner - we had planned to change them into a holiday outfit for the dinner & photos with great-grandmother).

I've heard other people talking about trips they're taking as if the shortest time it has ever taken them to get to *Grandma's House* (or wherever) is how long they plan on it taking from then on - never mind that that one time the weather was perfect, traffic was light, they had a full tank of gas, and *nothing* happened to cause delays. The next time they go, they'll still allow the same amount of time for travel even if they need to stop & get gas AND it's raining, too. Because "it's only a twenty minute drive"!

Yes, agreed. But I think people should notice their own patterns and recognize that they are always making others wait, then adjust.

Growing up, my aunt, uncle and two cousins left us waiting every single holiday. For hours sometimes, often we were just sitting at the table waiting because they would call and say they left but somehow never could get from their house to grandparents in the time it would take any normal people to do so.

My cousin later did this to me; left me waiting for FOUR hours past when she was expected and I asked what the hell she had been doing. She said it just never dawned on her that anyone actually cared where she was or what she was doing or what time she arrived anywhere. That made me sad. She'd stopped to shop, stopped for food, stopped for ice cream. She was really shocked to learn that her parents had left us all sitting around like that.

I also have a chronically late friend, but it's part of our social contract. I just expect him to be late. I mean, he can say "I am ready, please come pick me up now" and I'll still be left sitting outside his house for 15 minutes waiting, minimum. But it's expected and he's a dear otherwise, so I just don't get upset about it anymore. He's rather proper, and didn't like it very much when I explained that I always wondered what he could be doing but eventually figured he must be on the toilet.

VorFemme · « **Reply #42 on:** November 26, 2018, 04:12:31 pm »

Quote from: Hanna on November 26, 2018, 03:56:29 pm

I also have a chronically late friend, but it's part of our social contract. I just expect him to be late. I mean, he can say "I am ready, please come pick me up now" and I'll still be left sitting outside his house for 15 minutes waiting, minimum. But it's expected and he's a dear otherwise, so I just don't get upset about it anymore. He's rather proper, and didn't like it very much when I explained that I always wondered what he could be doing but eventually figured he must be on the toilet.

Well (raising one eyebrow al la Mr. Spock), that would be the *logical* explanation why a proper person would be late but hesitate to explain what happened to all & sundry, wouldn't it?

Hanna · « **Reply #43 on:** November 26, 2018, 06:21:17 pm »

Quote from: VorFemme on November 26, 2018, 04:12:31 pm

Quote from: Hanna on November 26, 2018, 03:56:29 pm

I also have a chronically late friend, but it's part of our social contract. I just expect him to be late. I mean, he can say "I am ready, please come pick me up now" and I'll still be left sitting outside his house for 15 minutes waiting, minimum. But it's expected and he's a dear otherwise, so I just don't get upset about it anymore. He's rather proper, and didn't like it very much when I explained that I always wondered what he could be doing but eventually figured he must be on the toilet.

Well (raising one eyebrow al la Mr. Spock), that would be the *logical* explanation why a proper person would be late but hesitate to explain what happened to all & sundry, wouldn't it?

Lol, exactly! And I thought it might inspire him to be more prompt at least when I’m picking him up.

Lilac · « **Reply #44 on:** November 26, 2018, 09:05:48 pm »

Quote from: Hanna on November 25, 2018, 08:01:51 am

What time we would all arrive based on those instructions isn’t really relevant, right? You have to be specific and clear about the time with people who are always late, then plan on them still being late. Because for whatever reason, they really don’t care if they are holding up the entire show.

Also, as someone above mentioned, don’t depend on those types for important contributions to the meal, especially not the appetizers.

I don’t think I could start without my Mom or MIL though, and in your case I would have had DD making the calls to get them there on time, since she was the one on a tight schedule.

I agree with this.

The root of the problem is the flexible serving time. Pick a menu you can reliably serve at a stated time -- even if that means cooking the turkey the day before and re-heating portions, etc., or getting up at 5 to put the bird in -- and start within 10 minutes of that time. Giving an hour range sounds to me more like a drop-in or open-house arrangement than an actual seated holiday meal. Which, actually, might be a solution if the family includes a lot of unreliable or tardy members.

"Come by 12:30, we'll be eating at 1" leaves less guesswork for both hosts and guess.

Bad Manners and Brimstone

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Author Topic: When would you arrive? (Read 2606 times)

Rose Red

Re: When would you arrive?

Hmmm

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Pattycake

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Jem

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lowspark

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DaDancingPsych

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pjeans

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VorFemme

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QueenFaninCA

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Hmmm

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AtHomeRose

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Hanna

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VorFemme

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Hanna

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Lilac

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