Author Topic: Frustration with rude family member - best way to handle with least blowback.  (Read 2243 times)

Despedina

My husband has 2 brothers. He's closest to the middle child, who is 2 yrs younger than him. Dealing with this brother (Ned) can be challenging but we've all had a good relationship over the years, (I've known him for almost 20 years). Recently in the last year or so, Ned is ever more testy and difficult to be around. DH and I have tolerated his sometimes bad attitude as he seems to have an increasingly strained relationship with his wife who never seems to want to spend much time with him and we think this is where his bad attitude is coming from but we're not sure. DH and I live about an hour north of where Ned and my MIL live. We go down often on the weekends to help out on the property which is something we enjoy doing along with spending time with MIL and my kids like to spend time with Ned's son (my nephew).  Ned often spends his time at his mom's while we are there which is usually more than half a day.
Ned has become more and more argumentative about EVERYTHING. For example, MIL will ask me how work is going and I will talk about new federal regulation coming into effect and Ned will sit there and argue with me about it. He does not work in my industry (moving) just knows truckers who come to the shop he owns for tires and repairs so tells me I don't know what I'm talking about. I literally have told him this is my job and I live it every day and he is mistaken. He usually won't let it go and we all have to change the subject.  This will happen over and over again with any subject. Also he snaps at me when I try to ask basic questions. Not long ago I asked him if he had an extension cord. I didn't even get the full question out and he hollars at me that he doesn't F'n know.   In these cases MIL and my DH won't tell him to calm down or anything because they say it will just make it worse. So we all sit there as if we're held hostage by Ned and his rants about all subjects. He also has this preference of passing gas loudly in the room right in front of us with no effort to excuse himself. I feel this is part of his aggression.    This weekend it came to a head for me because Ned's wife texted me about the upcoming holiday which we are hosting at our house on the 21st (other BIL, Alex lives 45 north of us so we thought this would be a good compromise for location this time). She wanted to confirm the date. I was a little confused since Ned and DH had spoken at length and I was also in the middle of something. I sent a quick voice to text back that Ned and DH had spoken about it and its the 21st. Apparently she took it as me being rude to her and she called and yelled at Ned, and then Ned called and yelled at DH. DH said nothing and my feelings were a little hurt that as usual DH didn't stop Ned from being angry Ned and ranting about me and some imagined slight .  DH and I had a long conversation about it and decided we cannot let Ned speak to us like this anymore. Someone once said you show people how you want to be treated (or something like that).  Everyone has so far been afraid to say anything to him and is hoping this phase of his life passes quickly. Any tips on how to respond when Ned acts like this? We really don't want to stop visiting MIL (and DH is afraid to alienate Ned) and also if he's in my house acting like this I won't be able to stay silent anyway.   

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gellchom

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Wow.  This is sad.  I feel sorry for the whole family.

This sounds like a situation in which you are not ever going to get Ned to change.  It sounds like it's just all his own issues, not anything between him and anyone else.  All you can do is find strategies -- you'll need several -- for keeping yourself calm and sane. 

Wine?   :)  And promise yourself a treat after every Ned visit.

Good luck.  I hope Ned sorts himself out at some point.

lakey

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All you can do is find strategies -- you'll need several -- for keeping yourself calm and sane. 
Maybe some of the times you can find a reason to go to another room.

Or, I wonder what would happen if, when he snaps, everyone just stopped talking and looked shocked.

Dazi

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While I can't diagnosis anyone, Ned's behavior is consistent with being depressed. It's not unusual for men, especially men over 40, to lash out and express anger over the smallest things, which is quite different from how women typically manifest symptoms. It can be extremely frustrating to deal with this type of behavior.
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Runningstar

I would take a break from going.  If you feel that your child is safe then send him along with just your husband for a while.  This isn't giving in to the bil, or punishing anyone, it is to take some time to reflect on what is going on. 
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Runningstar

Forgot to add my opinion about having bil at your home, I'd weigh the pros and cons of cancelling/changing and go from there.   I'd like to be so bold as to put a con right out there for you - it is harmful for your child to observe you being mistreated like this. 
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Hmmm

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I'm sorry your going through this. It sounds very stressful.

For the holiday you are hosting, my best advice is to not engage. Ignore his behavior like you'd try to ignore a friends toddler throwing a tantrum. Ned wants everyone else to be angry and irritated like he is. He knows your buttons and is actively pushing them. Refuse to acknowledge any of his comments. The easiest is to just ignore and pretend he didn't speak.

I'd also see if your DH is willing to call him up and tell him that he doesn't know what is going on with him but he has noticed that he is yelling and behaving poorly and that at the holiday visit, that behavior will not be tolerated. And if he doesn't think he can attend and ask nice, it would be best for him to not join you guys.

I'll admit that I would probably have already moved onto PA behavior when dealing with him. I know that PA behavior is normally frowned upon but honestly, when you are dealing with someone who does not accept standard social behaviors, at times it is the best approach in my opinion. Your not escalating to a verbal argument, but trying to shut down the behavior for everyone else's benefit.

Ned makes a nasty remark or passes gas.
You cut your eyes toward him, but do not turn your head, look for 2 seconds and then look away to someone else to whom you were speaking. If Ned challenges with a "what was that look" a 'I don't know what you mean' and turn to MIL with a "can I get you more coffee"? But you need your DH completely on board because if he starts getting out of control, your DH needs to be prepared to tell him he needs to leave and yelling at his wife or any other family member in his home will not be tolerated.

I had a co-worker years ago who acted this way toward me specifically. I seemed to be the easiest target for his anger. I created the personal mantra of "it's not worth my energy to argue with children or idiots and he is an idiot." Don't let Ned get into your head and raise your blood pressure. He is not worth it.
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Despedina

This is all good advice so thank you.  I'm not the only one he vents at, I just seem to be the least likely to be ok with it.

Although his issues seem to stem with his wife he does not argue with her at all in front of the rest of us. Which is strange because he'll argue with everyone and anyone else.

To the poster who mentioned he may be depressed, I think he may be. He has admitted to being on "happy pills" (his words not mine). I was a little surprised because there doesn't seem to be improvement in his mood, only the opposite.

Bada

What would happen if you said "I don't like being yelled at" and left the room? Would the rest agree and follow you, leaving BIL alone to have no one to rant to?

It can take a while to find the anti-depressant that works for a person and in the right dose. So maybe he is working on his anger issues? One can only hope.
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TootsNYC

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I agree with Dani—this is a symptom of great unhappiness. Whether it’s medically depression or just being generally unhappy, that’s what it is.

As a sibling, I’d be more worried than angry. (And since I’d be angry, that tells you how worried I’d be.)

I’d be asking DH to call Ned and say, “You’ve been really angry and yelling at people, and it’s really, really unpleasant on the receiving end of it. Are you OK? What’s up? Are you and Carol OK, or how’s work, money, what?
   “Can you find someone to talk to about this? I hate to see you so unhappy. Sometimes we can’t fix the things that make us unhappy, but we can find ways to cope, either logistically or emotionally.
   “And my dearest brother, we NEED you to find a way to communicate that isn’t this rude and this unpleasant. On this holiday, we need you to be polite. I’m not going to sit quietly by and let you create all this unpleasant tension. I’ll take you out for a walk or something to help you cope, but if you won’t take the hint, we’re going to send you home.
   “I’m sorry it’s come to this—I worry about you a lot. But I can’t let you turn Christmas in my home into an unpleasant gathering full of Ned yelling at people and farting in the living room. Capiche?”
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gramma dishes

... We really don't want to stop visiting MIL (and DH is afraid to alienate Ned) and also if he's in my house acting like this I won't be able to stay silent anyway.

Why is DH afraid to alienate Ned?
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DaDancingPsych

I agree with Dani—this is a symptom of great unhappiness. Whether it’s medically depression or just being generally unhappy, that’s what it is.

As a sibling, I’d be more worried than angry. (And since I’d be angry, that tells you how worried I’d be.)

I’d be asking DH to call Ned and say, “You’ve been really angry and yelling at people, and it’s really, really unpleasant on the receiving end of it. Are you OK? What’s up? Are you and Carol OK, or how’s work, money, what?
   “Can you find someone to talk to about this? I hate to see you so unhappy. Sometimes we can’t fix the things that make us unhappy, but we can find ways to cope, either logistically or emotionally.
   “And my dearest brother, we NEED you to find a way to communicate that isn’t this rude and this unpleasant. On this holiday, we need you to be polite. I’m not going to sit quietly by and let you create all this unpleasant tension. I’ll take you out for a walk or something to help you cope, but if you won’t take the hint, we’re going to send you home.
   “I’m sorry it’s come to this—I worry about you a lot. But I can’t let you turn Christmas in my home into an unpleasant gathering full of Ned yelling at people and farting in the living room. Capiche?”

This. I have been working on a reply suggesting something similar. There's no guarantee that any actions will stop the angry outbursts and/or avoid blowbacks. But I think the kindest thing to do is to offer to help. He may not take you up on that help, but at least you can then make the consequences known.

This is one of those situations where none of the actions are pleasant or even guaranteed to work. I am sorry; I wish there were better options.
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BeagleMommy

Also, some "happy pills" have a side effect of "aggressive behavior".

Ned needs to be told by your DH that any rude of aggressive behavior will not be tolerated in your home.  If he starts he gets one warning to go cool off, take a walk, sometime.  Otherwise he will be asked to leave.
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Despedina

... We really don't want to stop visiting MIL (and DH is afraid to alienate Ned) and also if he's in my house acting like this I won't be able to stay silent anyway.

Why is DH afraid to alienate Ned?

DH does like to hang out with his brother when he's in a good mood. There are times when Ned is doing something he likes (working on his rock crawler, hanging out the with cousins, making BBQ) when he is definitely in a better mood.  He doesn't want to lose them. Also there have been years when Ned has been "better Ned".  Right now we have "Angry Ned", who thinks he can act however because he's unhappy and we will all put up with it.
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Despedina

What would happen if you said "I don't like being yelled at" and left the room? Would the rest agree and follow you, leaving BIL alone to have no one to rant to?

It can take a while to find the anti-depressant that works for a person and in the right dose. So maybe he is working on his anger issues? One can only hope.

What would happen is I would be the only one to leave. MIL does not deal with issues. She pretends its not happening. This will never change. I'm working on DH though. In the past there have been times when I've had to tell someone something that's not "sunshine and rainbows" or else be walked all over and he will say "Now Despedina", because he was raised to avoid confrontation at all cost, even if it meant you took it all with a big smile on your face. That is not how I was raised. If someone is being rude to me or mine, I try as politely as possible to shut it down.
DH and I had a conversation that if Ned acts like this at his mom's, its time to go, whether we had only been there for 10 min or 8 hrs.  His thought was to take separate cars, so he could just stay there and I could go home since I was the one that doesn't like it. I had to explain to him how that would change nothing as far as his brothers behavior. My whole point is that we're trying to send a message to him that this is unacceptable, whether verbally or non-verbally.
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