Bad Manners and Brimstone

Quote from: Jem on July 22, 2019, 09:14:22 am

Quote from: Victim Of Fate on July 20, 2019, 08:04:59 pm

The kind of events I'm talking about are when a moderate number of guests are invited round for dinner. So, for example, a typical event might see MIL, FIL, SIL, DW and me, along with MIL's cousin and her husband, MIL's elderly aunt, and a couple who are close friends with MIL and FIL along with one of their grown up children. So, in this example, 5 members of the hosting family and 6 guests.

This confuses me. Are the five members all living at the house where the dinner is taking place? It seems weird to describe them as "hosts" if this is not the case. When I go to a dinner at my sister's house or my parents' house I certainly don't think I am a "host" simply because I am related to them (and vice versa when I am hosting them at my house). Is the OP counting himself as a host or a guest? Is he counting his wife as a host or a guest?

I think there are a lot of ways to address this, and it just depends on what the OP's goal is. If he (I think the OP is a man?) wants to make himself more comfortable, he could simply join his wife in the kitchen, or speak up and ask that the door be kept open so the entire group can interact. Or he could take on the role of "host" himself if he thinks his wife is "hosting" because she is the daughter of his MIL and ensure the conversation flows.

I think the worst thing to do would be to blame anyone here. Is it "weird?" Well, in my experience it is, but that doesn't mean it is WRONG. I think maybe there are differing expectations rather than rudeness on anyone's part.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm certainly not one of the hosts when my mom throws a dinner at her house. I'm just one of the guests. But I can understand being uncomfortable with everybody sitting around just staring at each other and not even making chit chat about the weather. I'll probably start a conversation even if I'm not the host.

Quote from: Hmmm on July 21, 2019, 08:00:40 pm

So it sounds like MIL leaves her guests about 7:15 and doesn't re-engage until almost 8.

To be fair, the OP says they are usually in there for 20-30 minutes. So they should be back by 7:35-7:45. I don't know if that's still too long, but it's not 45 minutes which is definitely too long (imo) unless everybody mingles in smaller or larger groups, which doesn't sound like this crowd. Talk to your wife if everybody depends on the three women to be the "social director." Maybe the sisters can take turns helping MIL so they're not all in there at the same time.

The OP said "MIL et al are out of sight is normally about 20 minutes to a half hour". So I read that she leaves the living area 15 min after guests arrive, and her daughters follow suite 10 to 15 min later. So MIL, who is one of the primary hosts,  is at a minimum behind a closed door for a half hour or more and then for another 15 minutes working on getting the food to the table.

Either way, I still think going behind a closed door for a 20 min or more stretch is poor hosting.

Quote from: Hmmm on July 22, 2019, 10:47:49 am

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Either way, I still think going behind a closed door for a 20 min or more stretch is poor hosting.

I would argue that rarely/never choosing a crowd of people that have enough in common that they don't sit there in near-silence/crickets in the absence of 50% of the host is another example of poor hosting.

I've been to some friends' houses, and go more than a couple of times, and we are catching up with our hosts' friends.  Once I barely saw our lovely host, but we were tearing ourselves away to catch the last train home.

It has been the same at our parties, too.

I get the sense the OP is talking about family gatherings rather than parties. I agree the description from the OP does not sounds fun, but it came across to me as though they weren't exactly selecting people they thought would have a good time together. More of "well, these are the people in the family."

I guess a more general form of my question would be: to what extent should the hosts give facetime to guests at a dinner party before serving food versus concentrating on the food preparation, and to what extent should hosts ensure that guest don't feel like they are missing out on something more fun happening behind closed doors?

To answer these questions, I don't think the hosts should be away from the guests for more than about 15 minutes. As PPs have noted, the ideal dinner party meal consists of food that can be mostly prepared in advance with just a little bit of last minute prep. And the more people in the kitchen helping, the faster it should go!

To the second question, I think most parties do tend to break up into smaller groups or separate conversations, whether in different rooms or the same room. And that is fine as long as it's not somehow communicated that the fun group is somehow deliberately excluding some guests. And particularly if the hosts are involved as is happening here.

It's the duty of the host to ensure all guests are having a good time, inasmuch as possible. So yeah, it's reasonable to think that the group in the kitchen, while doing last minute prep, might be talking and laughing. But if it's closed off in such a way as to communicate that there is no admittance to the rest of the party, and if it goes on for an extended period of time, it's not so nice.

I agree with PPs who are wondering about the compatibility of the guest list. If the guests who are not in the kitchen were having a good time on their own, the absence and obvious frivolity of the kitchen gang might not be so glaring.

Quote from: Hmmm on July 22, 2019, 10:47:49 am

<snip>

Either way, I still think going behind a closed door for a 20 min or more stretch is poor hosting.

I would argue that rarely/never choosing a crowd of people that have enough in common that they don't sit there in near-silence/crickets in the absence of 50% of the host is another example of poor hosting.

I've been to some friends' houses, and go more than a couple of times, and we are catching up with our hosts' friends.  Once I barely saw our lovely host, but we were tearing ourselves away to catch the last train home.

It has been the same at our parties, too.

I agree with this so much. I think the people you choose to invite are the most critical to the success of any gathering.

I loved watching friends and family from various parts of our lives get to know each other over my wedding weekend. Complete strangers became friends and just enjoyed one another. The people were what made everything so easy and so lovely for me.

Quote from: Chez Miriam on July 22, 2019, 12:35:31 pm

Quote from: Hmmm on July 22, 2019, 10:47:49 am

<snip>

Either way, I still think going behind a closed door for a 20 min or more stretch is poor hosting.

I would argue that rarely/never choosing a crowd of people that have enough in common that they don't sit there in near-silence/crickets in the absence of 50% of the host is another example of poor hosting.

I've been to some friends' houses, and go more than a couple of times, and we are catching up with our hosts' friends.  Once I barely saw our lovely host, but we were tearing ourselves away to catch the last train home.

It has been the same at our parties, too.

I agree with this so much. I think the people you choose to invite are the most critical to the success of any gathering.

I loved watching friends and family from various parts of our lives get to know each other over my wedding weekend. Complete strangers became friends and just enjoyed one another. The people were what made everything so easy and so lovely for me.

But the OP did indicate it is pretty much the same guests. He said the typical group was "MIL's cousin and her husband, MIL's elderly aunt, and a couple who are close friends with MIL and FIL along with one of their grown up children".

So there isn't the fun flow of getting to know new people or catching up with people you seldom see.

I get to experience this issue a few times a year. When we go to my BIL(husband's brother) and SIL home for one of their mixed family events, I know I'll end up having to carry the conversation in the family room with SIL's cousin and her husband, BIL's best friend, and SIL's 19 year old niece. BIL and his friend will carry on a conversation but unless you are into model trains or their other hobby the conversation gets old quickly. will help out with the conversation but leaving them to lead it would end up with a conversation that the others would have no interest in. Neither of her cousin or cousin's husband work or travel, seem to have no hobbies and are not interested in sports, never seem to go to the theater or movies. After a short update from the niece about school or college, she retreats to her phone. Our conversations end up about the weather!

My SIL, her sister and her mom are in the kitchen talking and chatting and having a nice time completely oblivious to the awkwardness going on in the next room.

Seems like you and/or your wife could also go into the kitchen to help/talk.

I do think it's the responsibility of every grownup to figure out how to create conversation.

But it's sort of uncool to have "yukking it up" in the kitchen and "awkward silence" in the living room.

I sure as heck wouldn't want that, as a hostess, no matter what.

It really sounds like you should invade.


Regarding this:

Suddenly instead of them being difficult and me trying to fix it they were trying to pacify me.

I think some of us should let our annoyance show a little more sometimes! I'm glad of this result.

I don’t mean for this to sound rude but how else do you think food is going to get prepared unless people are in the kitchen preparing it? Maybe next time there is a dinner party you and your father-in-law should plan, cook and prepare all of the food so your wife and mother-in-law can just sit in the lounge and hangout with the guests.
 
What they are doing in not at all rude, someone has to prepare the food for the dinner, and they are allowed to have a good time while they do it.

While I feel it’s ok to go into the kitchen for a short visit during a dinner party, I think that inviting people to dinner and then leaving them for the entire process of cooking the meal, plating the apps and creating dessert, and whatever else is very rude.
I was taught to not leave guests while I hang out in the kitchen, which was my preference as a teen.
One should do the most of it ahead of time and definitely not have a separate meal prep party in the kitchen whilst the guests are left alone to entertain themselves.
Unless the invitation reads “why go to a restaurant? We’d love to cook for you, and serve you while you enjoy each other’s company.”