Author Topic: On princesses  (Read 2047 times)

Aleko

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On princesses
« on: August 14, 2020, 12:31:00 pm »
There's a classic historians' joke that goes like this:

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My daughter said to me, 'I want to be Daddy's princess!' So as soon as she turned twelve I traded her to an elderly foreigner in exchange for his help with my war.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is in a nutshell the function and fate of princesses throughout Western history.

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guihong

Re: On princesses
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2020, 05:55:38 pm »
That was the real fate of so many princesses.  Married off like a business transaction, no matter if the groom was gay, disgusting, mentally ill, or just dull.  Of course, maybe she wasn't all that and a bag of chips!

The joke is funny  ;D.
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Asharah

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Re: On princesses
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2020, 08:59:30 pm »
That was the real fate of so many princesses.  Married off like a business transaction, no matter if the groom was gay, disgusting, mentally ill, or just dull.  Of course, maybe she wasn't all that and a bag of chips!

The joke is funny  ;D.
It's better than what happened to Princess Joan of England. She was betrothed to a Spanish prince, but she and most of her entourage were killed by the Black Death when they stopped at Bordeaux. 
Asharah

Lula

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Re: On princesses
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2020, 06:31:56 am »
It's better than what happened to Princess Joan of England. She was betrothed to a Spanish prince, but she and most of her entourage were killed by the Black Death when they stopped at Bordeaux.

Sounds like divine mercy to me!
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Winterlight

Re: On princesses
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2020, 12:37:14 pm »
My dating axiom is that a guy who says he'll treat you like a queen probably has Henry VIII as his role model.
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HenrysMom

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Re: On princesses
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2020, 05:55:21 pm »
This made me think of one of Queen Victoria’s granddaughters (or was it a great-?) who was married off to some European prince, was later dumped and blamed/shamed by her ex-in-laws for everything wrong with the marriage (the husband’s failings had nothing to do with it, oh no).  Queen Victoria took her in, saying “Let her come to me.”  The poor princess then lived in seclusion the rest of her life (at least I think that’s how it went). 

TootsNYC

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Re: On princesses
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2020, 12:26:18 pm »
This made me think of one of Queen Victoria’s granddaughters (or was it a great-?) who was married off to some European prince, was later dumped and blamed/shamed by her ex-in-laws for everything wrong with the marriage (the husband’s failings had nothing to do with it, oh no).  Queen Victoria took her in, saying “Let her come to me.”  The poor princess then lived in seclusion the rest of her life (at least I think that’s how it went).

I'm not certain that was such a horrible fate. Depends how far "seclusion" went. If it was "not being required to make official public appearances," that's not bad. If it was "stays in her room or wing of the building and never sees anyone but serving staff," that's not so good.
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gramma dishes

Re: On princesses
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2020, 01:40:12 pm »
This made me think of one of Queen Victoria’s granddaughters (or was it a great-?) who was married off to some European prince, was later dumped and blamed/shamed by her ex-in-laws for everything wrong with the marriage (the husband’s failings had nothing to do with it, oh no).  Queen Victoria took her in, saying “Let her come to me.”  The poor princess then lived in seclusion the rest of her life (at least I think that’s how it went).

I think that one was Mary Louise.   Turns out the husband was gay and they had never consummated their marriage even though they were married several years.   I think somehow the husband was found enjoying the company of one of his manservants and the parents immediately turned that to being because Mary Louise was not attending properly to his 'needs'.   She lived with Queen Victoria the rest of her life, but never dated again because even though she had grown to loathe her husband (and his parents ~ surprise! surprise!) she had taken her wedding vows seriously and never stopped wearing her wedding band even though she was divorced from him.

Lilipons

Re: On princesses
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2020, 03:43:42 pm »
We can also tell ‘Princess Obsessed’ little girls about positive things that royal women have done.  Princess Diana and Princess Grace of Monaco come to mind.  If presented properly, a Princess with a moral conscience can be as powerful as a prince with a sword on a white horse. 
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Aleko

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Re: On princesses
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2020, 05:12:05 pm »
You think Princess Diana is a role model for little girls? Or indeed anyone at all ? Dear heavens. 
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Mary Sunshine Rain

Re: On princesses
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2020, 06:25:52 pm »
You think Princess Diana is a role model for little girls? Or indeed anyone at all ? Dear heavens.

I think that as long as you don't dig too deep, she's a good role model--mainly her picking charitable endeavors that required more courage than opening a hospital somewhere.

But, as to her neurosis, I agree with you.
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Winterlight

Re: On princesses
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2020, 07:07:42 pm »
You think Princess Diana is a role model for little girls? Or indeed anyone at all ? Dear heavens.

I think that as long as you don't dig too deep, she's a good role model--mainly her picking charitable endeavors that required more courage than opening a hospital somewhere.

But, as to her neurosis, I agree with you.

Well, I'd say she was a cautionary tale, if nothing else. "This is what happens when you raise your child to think that her only value is being a wife and mother, and she falls for the wrong guy."
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Hmmm

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Re: On princesses
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2020, 07:35:42 pm »
You think Princess Diana is a role model for little girls? Or indeed anyone at all ? Dear heavens.

I think that as long as you don't dig too deep, she's a good role model--mainly her picking charitable endeavors that required more courage than opening a hospital somewhere.

But, as to her neurosis, I agree with you.

Well, I'd say she was a cautionary tale, if nothing else. "This is what happens when you raise your child to think that her only value is being a wife and mother, and she falls for the wrong guy."
Did she actually fall for him or was it just considered a great catch for a young woman of her social standing?

gramma dishes

Re: On princesses
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2020, 07:36:30 pm »
You think Princess Diana is a role model for little girls? Or indeed anyone at all ? Dear heavens.

I'm hard pressed to even begin to imagine what it would have been like to be 19 or whatever she was and dating the Prince, heir to the throne.   I do think she actually loved him.   Finding out on your honeymoon that your brand new husband was still having an affair with his lover would be a little hard to take.  I'm pretty tough, but I think that would have shattered me to the core.

I think she really came into her own being after the divorce.   I think she was a fantastic mother and did do some very brave charitable work.

It always struck me as interesting that people who actually live in England seemed to almost universally dislike her, some very intensely, and yet the rest of the world seemed to love her. 

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chigger

Re: On princesses
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2020, 07:45:40 pm »
I agree that Diana was a wonderful mother! Yes, she was 19 and he was in his 30's? She had a rough time of it those first several years. She was just barely an adult. I admired her for the charity work she did. I truly believe the attention she brought to the AIDS crisis helped immeasurably.
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