Author Topic: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc (Read 2697 times)

guest282 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 16, 2018, 03:38:42 pm »

Is this something that a Patreon would make sense for? It's not exactly art, but it's a nice way to give money via a username instead of your real name.

Lynn2000 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 16, 2018, 03:54:07 pm »

I agree with the idea of going slowly. Perhaps in a month or so, when the ads and censoring kick in, people will be certain they don't like that, and willing to chip in to have it removed.

It would have to be decided what a donation "means," and who would know about who donated. I don't like the idea that if someone gives money, or gives more money, this is widely known or even known to the mods/admins. This could lead to the perception that some people get special treatment or different moderation standards because they gave a lot of money.

In my opinion the donation should be such that the mods (and other users) have no idea who donated and how much per individual, and it should change nothing about the person's status or rights within the forum. Is it a donation to support the forum, given voluntarily with no other strings, or a payment to buy services/extra services? This needs to be made clear.

Also, donation must be through a secure method and relatively convenient. I don't have a Paypal account, for example. I'm not familiar with the various other options. If something is set up, I will take a look at it and try to figure it out.

guest46 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 16, 2018, 04:00:13 pm »

Quote from: Nuggets on May 16, 2018, 03:38:42 pm

Is this something that a Patreon would make sense for? It's not exactly art, but it's a nice way to give money via a username instead of your real name.

Oh that's a good idea. A couple artists I follow on Twitter say there are some problems with Patreon so maybe there is a similar service. Has anyone used Venmo (sp)? I have heard it's some kind of PayPal alternative but I don't know how it works.

Quote from: Lynn2000 on May 16, 2018, 03:54:07 pm

I agree with the idea of going slowly. Perhaps in a month or so, when the ads and censoring kick in, people will be certain they don't like that, and willing to chip in to have it removed.

It would have to be decided what a donation "means," and who would know about who donated. I don't like the idea that if someone gives money, or gives more money, this is widely known or even known to the mods/admins. This could lead to the perception that some people get special treatment or different moderation standards because they gave a lot of money.

In my opinion the donation should be such that the mods (and other users) have no idea who donated and how much per individual, and it should change nothing about the person's status or rights within the forum. Is it a donation to support the forum, given voluntarily with no other strings, or a payment to buy services/extra services? This needs to be made clear.

Also, donation must be through a secure method and relatively convenient. I don't have a Paypal account, for example. I'm not familiar with the various other options. If something is set up, I will take a look at it and try to figure it out.

That is a great point about donations and perceptions of favoritism.

Athersgeo · « **Reply #18 on:** May 16, 2018, 04:23:31 pm »

Having been part of a message board where we had to crowdfund amongst the members to keep it going before:

Whatever you do, be very, very, VERY transparent about it. (This thread, btw, is a really good start on that score!) My previous experience was that the admin would say "The costs are X" and we'd stump up. It was never beyond the pale amounts, but there was a suspicion that the admin wasn't entirely being straight about the funds and what any amount over the sum required was being used for which did leave a bit of an uneasy feeling at times.

I'm also not sure about the suggestion of Patreon as a mechanism for doing the funding. Quite apart from whether or not this would qualify as art (personally, I don't think it does), there have been some fairly fundamental issues with the Patreon mechanism in terms of fees and the like and while they've been resolved, I suspect there's a "for now" ought to be appended to that statement.

Most of the other small scale donation-type mechanisms I've seen have also been focussed on artists/creators so I don't think any of them would be terribly applicable either.

Paypal's donate button is probably the best bet (if that's the route the forum goes down).

Amara · « **Reply #19 on:** May 16, 2018, 04:45:12 pm »

I'd be happy to send $20 right now via check and know I was done for a while.

wolfie · « **Reply #20 on:** May 16, 2018, 04:54:21 pm »

If we are going to pay I would rather we do a donate button and maybe a month of shilling then membership fees. Other forums I go to have a donate button and once a year they remind members to donate to keep the lights on. That way people who can't/don't want to donate aren't dinged and people who can throw more in the pot aren't seen as buying their way onto the forum. I also vote for not doing any extra replacement of words until we actually see what kind of ads are being shown. If the host doesn't want profanity I don't think that **** type ads will be an issue. If that doesn't turn out to be the case we can always censor triggering words later.

Thrabalen · « **Reply #21 on:** May 16, 2018, 04:55:03 pm »

I could do $5 right now. Gladly.

jpcher · « **Reply #22 on:** May 16, 2018, 04:57:41 pm »

I'd like to chime in with my thoughts about Ads (which I've been suppressing for a while) -- with the 'old'

site the Ads were so innocuous they were easy to ignore. There was absolutely no reason to block Ads on that site. A simple top/bottom banner Ad was all there was to it. No pop-ups, irritating videos that started playing without clicking on them which you couldn't turn off, no side-banners full of Ads . . . it was a very clean site with two Ads that changed wherever you clicked.

While I never clicked on the Ads themselves I sometimes found something interesting and went to google and searched from there.

I'd like to wait and see what happens when Ads start here then make adjustments as need be. If the Ads are the same (top/bottom banner) and pay for the site in the beginning, even if they are dating site or whatever Ads (ignore!), I'll give it a trial . . . if the Ads get too over the top I'll go with a subscription.

3 posts while I was typing . . . be back later.

guest10 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 16, 2018, 05:27:49 pm »

Quote from: Amara on May 16, 2018, 04:45:12 pm

I'd be happy to send $20 right now via check and know I was done for a while.

Me too, though maybe PayPal instead of a check.

Hmmm · « **Reply #24 on:** May 16, 2018, 05:29:06 pm »

Quote from: Once a Lurker on May 16, 2018, 03:20:50 pm

Quote from: Hmmm on May 16, 2018, 02:57:16 pm
Quote from: Once a Lurker on May 16, 2018, 01:39:51 pm
Oh I thought of something else. How much would everyone pay? Do regular users like me pay the same amount as the administrator and mods? Does equal pay mean equal say when it comes to moderation and how the forum is run? Do banned users get refunds?

I would actually think that the moderators shouldn't have to pay anything because they are giving up so much personal time to act as moderators. I'm not aware of any forums where all members have equal say. I think of that as the responsibility of the moderators.

And I would say no, banned users wouldn't get a refund. If I get kicked out of a movie theater or a theme park because I violated the rules of the park or theater, I'm not given a refund. Hopefully, the $1 a year investment lost wouldn't be too much of a concern for anyone.

But overall, I agree that it would be best to go with a "free" site for awhile to see how things go.

A movie theater or theme park owns the space and you pay them to use the space according to their rules. If everyone pays for the forum then everyone owns the forum and whether it's one dollar or one thousand you are entitled to get your money back if you are denied access to something you own. I would hope it wouldn't come to that but I like to know the fine print before I buy something.

I just see it very differently. I view it as a donation, not an acquisition of a service and I'm definitely not buying in as an "owner". I'm pretty sure the founder of Wiki doesn't see the donors to his site as having any ownership rights.

The idea that someone is going to spend the time to track who donated a $1 a year and then figure out if they paid in February and then banned in August so they get a .50 back is just silly.

Even if the fine print was written to state you were buying an annual subscription or membership, I would still recommend it stating that if the subscriber violates the rules of the site then they forfeit their membership fee for that year. I would much rather see a "your donation is non-refundable".

I just don't want to put a major administrative task on the moderators to track which participants are "paid" subscribers or free subscribers.

guest8 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 16, 2018, 05:44:31 pm »

Quote from: Lynn2000 on May 16, 2018, 03:54:07 pm

I agree with the idea of going slowly. Perhaps in a month or so, when the ads and censoring kick in, people will be certain they don't like that, and willing to chip in to have it removed.

It would have to be decided what a donation "means," and who would know about who donated. I don't like the idea that if someone gives money, or gives more money, this is widely known or even known to the mods/admins. This could lead to the perception that some people get special treatment or different moderation standards because they gave a lot of money.

In my opinion the donation should be such that the mods (and other users) have no idea who donated and how much per individual, and it should change nothing about the person's status or rights within the forum. Is it a donation to support the forum, given voluntarily with no other strings, or a payment to buy services/extra services? This needs to be made clear.

Also, donation must be through a secure method and relatively convenient. I don't have a Paypal account, for example. I'm not familiar with the various other options. If something is set up, I will take a look at it and try to figure it out.

I moderate a few channels on Twitch, a live streaming venue. There are definitely donations and subscriptions, but it is made abundantly clear you are held to the TOS and the rules of the stream. There is no buying your way in to heaven with donations or subscriptions. If you violate the rules, you can get gagged or banned. And Amazon (who owns Twitch) is not giving your money back.

kitty · « **Reply #26 on:** May 16, 2018, 05:58:54 pm »

Quote from: jpcher on May 16, 2018, 04:57:41 pm

I'd like to chime in with my thoughts about Ads (which I've been suppressing for a while) -- with the 'old' site the Ads were so innocuous they were easy to ignore. There was absolutely no reason to block Ads on that site. A simple top/bottom banner Ad was all there was to it. No pop-ups, irritating videos that started playing without clicking on them which you couldn't turn off, no side-banners full of Ads . . . it was a very clean site with two Ads that changed wherever you clicked.

While I never clicked on the Ads themselves I sometimes found something interesting and went to google and searched from there.

I appreciate your viewpoint, jpcher, but... a lot of people had issues with malware from ads on the old forum, even though the administration of that forum flatly denied it. If it happened once, it certainly could happen again. I was lucky enough to be reading the site at work, where ad blockers were mandatory, or I'd have been out a laptop too.

I say make donations completely voluntary and completely anonymous. Put up a Paypal button, let people pitch in a buck or two, and then make an alert posting if the funds start running low. That's how it works on other forums I'm on, and there hasn't been any problems with it so far.

Thrabalen · « **Reply #27 on:** May 16, 2018, 06:29:19 pm »

Quote from: ydpubs on May 16, 2018, 05:44:31 pm

Quote from: Lynn2000 on May 16, 2018, 03:54:07 pm
I agree with the idea of going slowly. Perhaps in a month or so, when the ads and censoring kick in, people will be certain they don't like that, and willing to chip in to have it removed.

It would have to be decided what a donation "means," and who would know about who donated. I don't like the idea that if someone gives money, or gives more money, this is widely known or even known to the mods/admins. This could lead to the perception that some people get special treatment or different moderation standards because they gave a lot of money.

In my opinion the donation should be such that the mods (and other users) have no idea who donated and how much per individual, and it should change nothing about the person's status or rights within the forum. Is it a donation to support the forum, given voluntarily with no other strings, or a payment to buy services/extra services? This needs to be made clear.

Also, donation must be through a secure method and relatively convenient. I don't have a Paypal account, for example. I'm not familiar with the various other options. If something is set up, I will take a look at it and try to figure it out.

I moderate a few channels on Twitch, a live streaming venue. There are definitely donations and subscriptions, but it is made abundantly clear you are held to the TOS and the rules of the stream. There is no buying your way in to heaven with donations or subscriptions. If you violate the rules, you can get gagged or banned. And Amazon (who owns Twitch) is not giving your money back.

Yeah, when I said I could kick in $5, I specifically was thinking about how that's a basic sub for a streamer. I will get more use out of this site than any streamer.

guest46 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 16, 2018, 07:13:59 pm »

Quote from: Hmmm on May 16, 2018, 05:29:06 pm

Quote from: Once a Lurker on May 16, 2018, 03:20:50 pm
Quote from: Hmmm on May 16, 2018, 02:57:16 pm
Quote from: Once a Lurker on May 16, 2018, 01:39:51 pm
Oh I thought of something else. How much would everyone pay? Do regular users like me pay the same amount as the administrator and mods? Does equal pay mean equal say when it comes to moderation and how the forum is run? Do banned users get refunds?

I would actually think that the moderators shouldn't have to pay anything because they are giving up so much personal time to act as moderators. I'm not aware of any forums where all members have equal say. I think of that as the responsibility of the moderators.

And I would say no, banned users wouldn't get a refund. If I get kicked out of a movie theater or a theme park because I violated the rules of the park or theater, I'm not given a refund. Hopefully, the $1 a year investment lost wouldn't be too much of a concern for anyone.

But overall, I agree that it would be best to go with a "free" site for awhile to see how things go.

A movie theater or theme park owns the space and you pay them to use the space according to their rules. If everyone pays for the forum then everyone owns the forum and whether it's one dollar or one thousand you are entitled to get your money back if you are denied access to something you own. I would hope it wouldn't come to that but I like to know the fine print before I buy something.

I just see it very differently. I view it as a donation, not an acquisition of a service and I'm definitely not buying in as an "owner". I'm pretty sure the founder of Wiki doesn't see the donors to his site as having any ownership rights.

The idea that someone is going to spend the time to track who donated a $1 a year and then figure out if they paid in February and then banned in August so they get a .50 back is just silly.

Even if the fine print was written to state you were buying an annual subscription or membership, I would still recommend it stating that if the subscriber violates the rules of the site then they forfeit their membership fee for that year. I would much rather see a "your donation is non-refundable".

I just don't want to put a major administrative task on the moderators to track which participants are "paid" subscribers or free subscribers.

I don't think it's silly to expect, give or receive a refund in the absence of other circumstances which is after all what we're discussing. But I've always been very diligent about my money.

guest4 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 16, 2018, 09:36:21 pm »

Whatever you do, I would like it to be fair and equal for those of us who really cannot donate. Possibly ever. I'm on disability and I have to account for every penny. I'm also in a lot of debt due to medical bills. I would stop coming to the site all together if I got held to different standards than someone who has the money to help out.

Bad Manners and Brimstone

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Author Topic: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc (Read 2697 times)

guest282

Re: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc

Lynn2000

Re: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc

guest46

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Athersgeo

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Amara

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wolfie

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Thrabalen

Re: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc

jpcher

Re: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc

guest10

Re: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc

Hmmm

Re: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc

guest8

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kitty

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Thrabalen

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guest46

Re: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc

guest4

Re: IMPORTANT INFORMATION--Ads, censored words, etc