Author Topic: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than family? (Read 3316 times)

Amara · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2019, 02:46:55 pm »

This just seems so obvious to me, though I readily recognize it is my opinion only.

John and his wife should consider themselves fortunate their daughter spent 17 Christmas days with them; younger teens are often chafing to get out of family activities after gifts have been opened and being with their friends.

She may still be being supported by them but she is an adult. I would hope that John would be able to be proud that they raised an independent young woman who is beginning to recognize the importance of her choices and boundaries. The parents apparently did a good job.They should let her go. Tell her they'll miss her terribly but wish her a great time. Ask if she is willing to call or Skype on Christmas day. Enjoy what she tells them and participate in a bit of excitement at her holiday choice. They should show her that her independence is as important to them as to her. And they should never try to guilt her or make the old tradition into a jail cell. Her breaking away is not unusual but it is a sign that they should begin to re-think the holiday traditions to suit John and his wife because they can't, and I hope they would not want to, force it onto their daughter and son forever. They'd end up as one of those people who write in here because "it's faaaaaaaamily" and "it's traaaaaadition" are used as balls and chains and resentment builds up to toxic levels and eventual implosion.

I have no doubt there is sadness in the change but there is also potential. I myself made a major change for Christmas Day this year and damnit, it felt great. I am not going back.

Luci · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2019, 03:07:40 pm »

As a parent, I agree with "let them go if you want them to come back." Of course the parents are disappointed, but that’s life.

Mary Sunshine Rain · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2019, 03:33:50 pm »

Quote from: Amara on January 01, 2019, 02:46:55 pm

They'd end up as one of those people who write in here because "it's faaaaaaaamily" and "it's traaaaaadition" are used as balls and chains and resentment builds up to toxic levels and eventual implosion.

As the mother of several adult children who made a very successful transition to being productive and self-supporting adults, I think making fun of family and tradition to be rather offensive.

It's why my kids are successful and self-supporting, not in spite of it.

There are times when families use traditions or the family card to control their offspring. But, this girl is not self-supporting and really, hardly an adult. If she still relies on her daddy to put a roof over her head and doesn't see that that might create certain obligations for her, then she is pretty foolish.

Just as you can make fun of family and tradition, I can make fun of young people who like to pretend they are adults when someone else's sweat puts a roof over their head.

The daughter should do what she wants because she's only young once? We are all only as young today as we ever are once.

Maybe the parents should stop underwriting their daughter's life and enjoy their money themselves. John and his wife might really rather enjoy Christmas doing something much more interesting too--a cruise perhaps? Maybe go to a resort and have massages and chef made dinners? Maybe a ski vacation?

It cuts both ways.

Hmmm · « **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2019, 04:52:02 pm »

I think at 18, she has the right to decide how she wants to spend her Christmas as long as she is funding it. I can understand the parents and brother being hurt and disappointed that she'd rather spend it with her friends than with her family. However, just because they are hurt doesn't mean it is wrong. I think it best to wish her well and tell her to have a good time. And then the next year she can decide if she missed having her holiday with her family or prefers to spend it with friends.

guest657 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2019, 04:54:32 pm »

Wow.

Parents trying to control their adult children with money, or punishing them for failing to show due fealty is the very definition of toxic family dynamics.

It is developmentally normal for teens and young adults to prioritize friends, career, and socializing over lots of family togetherness, and to want to shake up family traditions into a new, more flexible, form.

It is not emotionally normal or healthy for a parent to become vindictive or threaten to cut off their children. Especially over a single missed celebration, that apparently was politely discussed with the family in advance.

Amara · « **Reply #20 on:** January 01, 2019, 06:15:20 pm »

Mary Sunshine Rain, perhaps I could have phrased it better but I am NOT making fun of family and tradition. What I am pointing out, in very strong terms, is that lording that over grown children is the very best way to make sure they will pull away and not want to come home (and if they do come they may bring a lot of resentment with them). Let them go with best wishes. Keep family traditions but do not force anyone into coming. Have fun with them yourself. Your children should feel you support them in their choices for holidays regardless of what those are.

Mary Sunshine Rain · « **Reply #21 on:** January 01, 2019, 06:49:22 pm »

Quote from: Amara on January 01, 2019, 06:15:20 pm

Mary Sunshine Rain, perhaps I could have phrased it better but I am NOT making fun of family and tradition. What I am pointing out, in very strong terms, is that lording that over grown children is the very best way to make sure they will pull away and not want to come home (and if they do come they may bring a lot of resentment with them). Let them go with best wishes. Keep family traditions but do not force anyone into coming. Have fun with them yourself. Your children should feel you support them in their choices for holidays regardless of what those are.

Having raised several children, I disagree.

There are plenty of holidays that are not family oriented. Christmas isn't one of them.

And expecting your first year uni student to spend Christmas with the family isn't lording anything over anyone.

However, what I describe is the very essence of letting them go--and not putting one's own interests first just like the 18 year old!

Mary Sunshine Rain · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2019, 07:10:04 pm »

Quote from: Anon4Now on January 01, 2019, 04:54:32 pm

Wow.

Parents trying to control their adult children with money, or punishing them for failing to show due fealty is the very definition of toxic family dynamics.

Not at all! It's a matter of priorities. Or are you actually suggesting that the father is obligated to underwrite his adult daughter's life?!

Quote

It is developmentally normal for teens and young adults to prioritize friends, career, and socializing over lots of family togetherness, and to want to shake up family traditions into a new, more flexible, form.

Yes, it is. But at this stage it's still a give and take. One day together for the holiday can hardly be described as "lots of family togetherness." It's simply an important day for her parents for the family to be together. If it isn't important for her, then what's wrong with mom and dad also re-prioritizing? Why should they consider things important just because she does if she can't do the same?

Quote

It is not emotionally normal or healthy for a parent to become vindictive or threaten to cut off their children. Especially over a single missed celebration, that apparently was politely discussed with the family in advance.

It's not a "single missed celebration" It's an important family holiday.

And there is nothing vindictive about it. It's about not letting someone take advantage of you.

Just because I'm someone's parent doesn't mean I have to underwrite their life. She doesn't get to claim to be an adult and at the same time live off her parents. That's the very definition of having your cake and eat it too.

Go to the beach with your friends some other time. This is family time. Don't agree? Fine. But don't expect me to continue to put myself out for you in major ways while you ignore something important to me.

It's not vindictiveness, it's consequences. It's amazing how "adult children" get a pass for dissing their parents while at the same time relying on them. That's really very toxic. It's using someone. That's what a spoiled child does, not an adult.

So, please spare me the "she's 18 and an adult." Nope. If she were an adult, she would prioritize things in a way that honored the sacrifice that her parents are making for her.

TaurusGirl · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2019, 07:13:59 pm »

I'm in the majority here - the daughter should be able to spend Christmas how she wants, and as a previous poster said, as long as she is funding it herself.
How long is someone living at home expected to conform to the parents' traditions? Regardless of whether she's completely financially independent or not, 18 is plenty old enough to decide how to spend a holiday. I would be singing a different song if the daughter was expecting her parents to pay for the trip, and get her to and from the location, but it doesn't sound like this is the case.
As someone who moved out at 19, and was paying their own way at 15, I would heavily resent being told where I had to be on Christmas or any other holiday.

Mary Sunshine Rain · « **Reply #24 on:** January 01, 2019, 07:36:10 pm »

Quote from: TaurusGirl on January 01, 2019, 07:13:59 pm

I'm in the majority here - the daughter should be able to spend Christmas how she wants, and as a previous poster said, as long as she is funding it herself.
How long is someone living at home expected to conform to the parents' traditions? Regardless of whether she's completely financially independent or not, 18 is plenty old enough to decide how to spend a holiday. I would be singing a different song if the daughter was expecting her parents to pay for the trip, and get her to and from the location, but it doesn't sound like this is the case.
As someone who moved out at 19, and was paying their own way at 15, I would heavily resent being told where I had to be on Christmas or any other holiday.

Not an important family holiday. Her birthday? Sure. But not this holiday.

And she's not "paying for it herself." She can afford it because her father is underwriting her living arrangements and probably a good bit of her school expenses.

She has an obligation to honor that until she doesn't benefit from it anymore.

There is no "regardless of whether she is financially independent..." There sure is! Until you are using money that you worked for, your decisions continue to have an impact on other people. The money she is using for the trip that will take her away from her family on an important family holiday is money she could be using to pay for any of the expenses that her father and mother are shelling out for her.

Parents give their adult children a lot of leeway in terms of letting them enjoy a quality of life they could never afford while on their way to attaining it themselves. The least that adult child can do under such circumstances is be there for an important family holiday.

LifeOnPluto · « **Reply #25 on:** January 01, 2019, 07:42:46 pm »

OP here. My understanding is that Jessica was intending to fund her share of the beach house herself, and make her own travel arrangements to and from the coast.

To be clear, I was one of the people who advocated for letting Jessica spend Christmas at the beach house. The main reason for this, was that (as another poster said) John's Christmas Day traditions sound pretty dull and stifling! (Not that I told John this!). But I also feel that Jessica is a legal adult and old enough to choose for herself where she wants to spend Christmas.

That said, I can completely see where John is coming from - I'm not a parent, but "letting go" must sting sometimes. I guess there's always the fear that if you "let them go", they won't ever come back? John also said that these days, his family doesn't actually get to spend much time together. Between work, uni, school, sports, and other schedules, the four members of his family are always in and out. Plus, Jessica socialises a lot with her friends and boyfriend anyway (she sees him nearly every day as it is), so I think he was looking forward to his family spending some quality time together.

Also, John might be feeling a bit down, as he lost a parent earlier this year. Said parent lived 3 hours away, so they didn't spend Christmas Day together, but they'd normally catch up in the week beforehand. This was John's first Christmas without his parent, so it might have been extra-tough for him.

SioCat · « **Reply #26 on:** January 01, 2019, 07:50:50 pm »

It’s Jessicas Christmas too. She should get to decide how she wants to celebrate it.

LadyRexall · « **Reply #27 on:** January 01, 2019, 09:43:25 pm »

Quote from: Mary Sunshine Rain on January 01, 2019, 02:01:51 pm

I agree that John is right to feel hurt.

There aren't a lot of holidays that center around family, Christmas being pretty much the main one.

There are plenty of other weeks that she can run off with her friends.

Frankly, as her parent, I would let her go. But, then I would re-examine what I felt were my obligations to an 18 year old who was making decisions to prioritize her friends and boyfriend over a holiday that was very important to me and our family.

There are a lot of benefits to having a tight knit family. If they were expecting her to celebrate her birthday or New Year's with them, I would feel differently. But, Christmas is different.

For some families, it's New Year's that is the main family holiday. I know folks that could bow out of their Christmas family celebration but would move heaven and earth to make sure they were there for NYE!

The fact is that she knows that Christmas is an important family holiday and she is choosing to put herself first. She can do that, but then maybe John will stop putting her first as well.

I can understand a young person chafing at family obligations if there are too many, but growing up means making tough choices. And there are consequences to the choices we make.

Obviously at one point, John spent Christmas with his family origin. Obviously at one point, John stopped spending Christmas with his family of origin. The way op says she won’t go into details why makes it sound like it’s not just that he now had a wife and kids and wanted a nuclear celebration, but he may have stopped the day he moved out from their home, or maybe even 10 years ago, or any time in between. If John was allowed to make that decision and go his own way, why is he hurt that his daughter has made a choice and gone her own way? And this may be a one time trip. Nothing was said that his daughter decided to @never@ spend Christmas with her nuclear family. John should be a bit more respectful that his daughter has the RIGHT to choose just as he did. And for the comments saying John needs to reevaluate what he does for his daughter? Why? There’s no indication that John is emotionally abusivecsnd would cut his daughter off for simply spending one Christmas on her own. This happens at one point. Does he think that when she’s grown and married with kids she’ll still come to his house or spend Christmas with him?

guest657 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 01, 2019, 09:47:04 pm »

Quote from: Mary Sunshine Rain on January 01, 2019, 07:36:10 pm

Quote from: TaurusGirl on January 01, 2019, 07:13:59 pm
I'm in the majority here - the daughter should be able to spend Christmas how she wants, and as a previous poster said, as long as she is funding it herself.
How long is someone living at home expected to conform to the parents' traditions? Regardless of whether she's completely financially independent or not, 18 is plenty old enough to decide how to spend a holiday. I would be singing a different song if the daughter was expecting her parents to pay for the trip, and get her to and from the location, but it doesn't sound like this is the case.
As someone who moved out at 19, and was paying their own way at 15, I would heavily resent being told where I had to be on Christmas or any other holiday.

Not an important family holiday. Her birthday? Sure. But not this holiday.

And she's not "paying for it herself." She can afford it because her father is underwriting her living arrangements and probably a good bit of her school expenses.

She has an obligation to honor that until she doesn't benefit from it anymore.

There is no "regardless of whether she is financially independent..." There sure is! Until you are using money that you worked for, your decisions continue to have an impact on other people. The money she is using for the trip that will take her away from her family on an important family holiday is money she could be using to pay for any of the expenses that her father and mother are shelling out for her.

Parents give their adult children a lot of leeway in terms of letting them enjoy a quality of life they could never afford while on their way to attaining it themselves. The least that adult child can do under such circumstances is be there for an important family holiday.

This is exactly what I meant about toxic family dynamics.

You appear to think that kids "owe" their parents for money spent on them, and are supposed to pay it back by outward shows of obedience, or loyalty, or filial piety, or whatever.

You repay money with money - adult children should contribute to the household finances as best they can through rent, chores, buying groceries, and/or helping support their parents when they can no longer support themselves. Or by paying their parents' support forward to the grandchildren, or by being good stewards of the parents' finances if they have to act as a fiduciary, and so forth.

You repay affection with affection and thoughtfulness. Now, if you argued that it was thoughtless of Jessica to be away from home on Christmas, particularly when they'd just lost a parent/grandparent, I could see that. If you said John should talk to Jessica about how that made him feel, and that he should ask her to rethink her plans because of how much he and her mom would miss her - sure. That's valid. It's not how I would feel, but I can understand it.

But the idea that she's not entitled to spend the day away because there's financial support involved? You are equating money with affection. That's not love. It's extortion.

Tea Drinker · « **Reply #29 on:** January 01, 2019, 09:49:03 pm »

It sounds as though John and his family have been having essentially the same Christmas every year, and I'm not surprised Jessica isn't excited by it. There's nothing wrong with playing board games, watching a movie at home, or going to church--but you can do those any week of the year, and they may not feel special to her. (I also suspect that, just as John assumed without asking that Jessica wanted to spend Christmas with her parents and younger brother, he may be incorrectly assuming thar she shares his taste in movies.)

I've been an eighteen-year-old girl with a younger brother, and neither of us was thrilled by the opportunity to spend time at home with the other: even a few years age difference is a big gap at that age, and not everyone is lucky enough to have a lot in common with their siblings.

Bad Manners and Brimstone

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Author Topic: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than family? (Read 3316 times)

Amara

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Luci

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Mary Sunshine Rain

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Hmmm

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guest657

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Amara

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Mary Sunshine Rain

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Mary Sunshine Rain

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TaurusGirl

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LifeOnPluto

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SioCat

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LadyRexall

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guest657

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Tea Drinker

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