Author Topic: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than family?  (Read 3317 times)

Mary Sunshine Rain

I'm in the majority here - the daughter should be able to spend Christmas how she wants, and as a previous poster said, as long as she is funding it herself.
How long is someone living at home expected to conform to the parents' traditions? Regardless of whether she's completely financially independent or not, 18 is plenty old enough to decide how to spend a holiday. I would be singing a different song if the daughter was expecting her parents to pay for the trip, and get her to and from the location, but it doesn't sound like this is the case.
As someone who moved out at 19, and was paying their own way at 15, I would heavily resent being told where I had to be on Christmas or any other holiday.

Not an important family holiday.  Her birthday?  Sure.  But not this holiday.

And she's not "paying for it herself."  She can afford it because her father is underwriting her living arrangements and probably a good bit of her school expenses.

She has an obligation to honor that until she doesn't benefit from it anymore.

There is no "regardless of whether she is financially independent..."  There sure is!  Until you are using money that you worked for, your decisions continue to have an impact on other people.  The money she is using for the trip that will take her away from her family on an important family holiday is money she could be using to pay for any of the expenses that her father and mother are shelling out for her.

Parents give their adult children a lot of leeway in terms of letting them enjoy a quality of life they could never afford while on their way to attaining it themselves.  The least that adult child can do under such circumstances is be there for an important family holiday.

This is exactly what I meant about toxic family dynamics.

You appear to think that kids "owe" their parents for money spent on them, and are supposed to pay it back by outward shows of obedience, or loyalty, or filial piety, or whatever.

You repay money with money - adult children should contribute to the household finances as best they can through rent, chores, buying groceries, and/or helping support their parents when they can no longer support themselves. Or by paying their parents' support forward to the grandchildren, or by being good stewards of the parents' finances if they have to act as a fiduciary, and so forth.

You repay affection with affection and thoughtfulness. Now, if you argued that it was thoughtless of Jessica to be away from home on Christmas, particularly when they'd just lost a parent/grandparent, I could see that. If you said John should talk to Jessica about how that made him feel, and that he should ask her to rethink her plans because of how much he and her mom would miss her - sure. That's valid. It's not how I would feel, but I can understand it.

But the idea that she's not entitled to spend the day away because there's financial support involved? You are equating money with affection. That's not love. It's extortion.

I can see how you might think that, but I am not equating money with love.  In the OP on and this thread, it was put forward that since she can pay for this vacation and pays some of her way, that its ok--insinuating that if she were paying for nothing, she wouldn't have the right to say boo.  That's why I concentrated on that.

Plus, money is not just money, it's one's time and effort; the sweat of their brow.  Her dad and maybe her mom as well,  spend many hours at work to earn the money that they use to support the household.  That must be respected.

The fact that she is still supported by them and is at the same time asserting her supposed "adulthood" is disrespectful.  She's not really an adult yet.

She knows this is an expectation and the update only makes it more clear.  She is making a selfish choice to go off and do something fun and frivolous with her friends rather than being there for her family--the family that is there for her!

It might be boring.  It might be difficult emotionally, but it's an obligation, no different than the chores she has to do.

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Amara

I don't think I have ever before heard anyone equate spending Christmas with family as an obligation equal to chores.

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ClothoMoirai

I've been an eighteen-year-old girl with a younger brother, and neither of us was thrilled by the opportunity to spend time at home with the other: even a few years age difference is a big gap at that age, and not everyone is lucky enough to have a lot in common with their siblings.

That was me, and I had almost nothing in common with my brother.

The battle described happened twice in my life. The first iteration was during the first time that I was engaged. I was in college then and living at home as was my then-fiancee. Our respectively families invoked "my house, my rules" and we yielded. I'm sure they look fondly on those couple holidays but I don't and I suspect my former fiancee doesn't. This was about the time that I lost interest in celebrating the holidays at all and began to resent it.

A little over two years after the end of that engagement I faced it again. This time neither I nor my girlfriend was living with our parents; instead we were living together for two months at the point but our respective families didn't see that as a reason for anything different and invoked "but it's tradition!" We ended up giving in but there was severe damage to the relationships with our respective families. The result was that for a decade they only saw us on the holidays and we were only doing so out of a sense of obligation and to placate (taking the wind out of the sails of their complaints.) That came with a steep rice: the cost of a meaningful relationship with us for more than a decade. We'd see them at Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter and then be incommunicado for the rest of the year. I could only hope that winning to preserve their sense of tradition was worth that price.

The lesson I learned from this is that it is an area to tread carefully because it can be easy to gain a Pyrrhic victory.
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Mary Sunshine Rain

I don't think I have ever before heard anyone equate spending Christmas with family as an obligation equal to chores.

Is she obligated to do chores?  Why?  What if she would rather hang out with her friends than do the chores?

She's an adult.  Isn't she  entitled to spend her time however she pleases?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 11:46:56 pm by Mary Sunshine Rain »

LadyRexall

I don't think I have ever before heard anyone equate spending Christmas with family as an obligation equal to chores.

Is she obligated to do chores?  Why?  What if she would rather hang out with her friends than do the chores?

She's an adult.  Isn't she  entitled to spend her time however she pleases?

To me, family time or holidays shouldn’t be obligation. It should be because one “wants” to celebrate. I get that she’s always had to do what her family wants, but she’s becoming a little bit independent now. Trying to nip that in the bud will damage her relationship with her family. 
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Mary Sunshine Rain

I don't think I have ever before heard anyone equate spending Christmas with family as an obligation equal to chores.

Is she obligated to do chores?  Why?  What if she would rather hang out with her friends than do the chores?

She's an adult.  Isn't she  entitled to spend her time however she pleases?

To me, family time or holidays shouldn’t be obligation. It should be because one “wants” to celebrate. I get that she’s always had to do what her family wants, but she’s becoming a little bit independent now. Trying to nip that in the bud will damage her relationship with her family.

So, she "wants" to do chores?  What if she doesn't?

Why is spending time with her family optional but chores aren't?  What if her sibling was getting married?  Is she obligated to attend that?  How about a family funeral?
 
If family Christmas is boring, why should they reschedule it?  Won't she be just as bored if they do it on another day?  Wouldn't she be happier partying with her friends and her boyfriend?

She's an adult, why can't she just do whatever she wants without regard for what her parents want?

ClothoMoirai

To me, family time or holidays shouldn’t be obligation. It should be because one “wants” to celebrate.

This was a point my ex-wife and I made to our respective families: they got what they asked for/demanded. Too late they discovered it wasn't what they wanted.
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Asharah

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Read something in a magazine once about how most parents build their family holiday traditions around their children when they're little and keep doing the same thing every year for sentimentality. So when the kids reach their teens or early adulthood, the things they loved when they were five don't appeal to them anymore. Sounds like that's the situation here.
Asharah
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Wanaca

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In my FOO, my parents considered me an adult when I took on the full responsibilities of being an adult.  It didn't matter how many years I was alive.  What mattered was what adult responsibilities I assumed.  They drilled into my head the belief that responsibility and freedom go hand-in-hand.  You can't have one without the other.  I tend to see things the same way that they did.

I don't think it is a good comparison to compare a self-supporting adult with a person who is still expecting parents to support her/him.  Yes, there are parents who try to manipulate their adult (ie independent) children.  That isn't the case here.

The family Christmas sounds similar to what I celebrated---and still do.  It doesn't sound dull to me.  Yet in my family, Christmas and Thanksgiving were the only holidays we really celebrated all year, so they were important.  Two days out of 365.  Until I took on the responsibilities of being an adult, I was expected to respect that.  I didn't think that was asking too much.
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Jem

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In my FOO, my parents considered me an adult when I took on the full responsibilities of being an adult.  It didn't matter how many years I was alive.  What mattered was what adult responsibilities I assumed.  They drilled into my head the belief that responsibility and freedom go hand-in-hand.  You can't have one without the other. I tend to see things the same way that they did.

I don't think it is a good comparison to compare a self-supporting adult with a person who is still expecting parents to support her/him.  Yes, there are parents who try to manipulate their adult (ie independent) children.  That isn't the case here.

The family Christmas sounds similar to what I celebrated---and still do.  It doesn't sound dull to me.  Yet in my family, Christmas and Thanksgiving were the only holidays we really celebrated all year, so they were important.  Two days out of 365.  Until I took on the responsibilities of being an adult, I was expected to respect that.  I didn't think that was asking too much.

POD. Unless and until a person is independent, they have to consider how their choices affect their "benefactor." A person who is "an adult" only when it suits him or her, and who expects someone else to finance all or a portion of their life, is not "an independent adult" who can call all the shots without consequence.

Now, I'm not saying that the daughter should be prevented from going to the beach with her friends, but to say that she is "an adult" who can do what she wants isn't accurate, in my opinion. While she is being supported by her parents, I think she has an obligation to consider their wishes for her.
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LadyRexall

I don't think I have ever before heard anyone equate spending Christmas with family as an obligation equal to chores.

Is she obligated to do chores?  Why?  What if she would rather hang out with her friends than do the chores?

She's an adult.  Isn't she  entitled to spend her time however she pleases?

To me, family time or holidays shouldn’t be obligation. It should be because one “wants” to celebrate. I get that she’s always had to do what her family wants, but she’s becoming a little bit independent now. Trying to nip that in the bud will damage her relationship with her family.

So, she "wants" to do chores?  What if she doesn't?

Why is spending time with her family optional but chores aren't?  What if her sibling was getting married?  Is she obligated to attend that?  How about a family funeral?
 
If family Christmas is boring, why should they reschedule it?  Won't she be just as bored if they do it on another day?  Wouldn't she be happier partying with her friends and her boyfriend?

She's an adult, why can't she just do whatever she wants without regard for what her parents want?

Oh my! Of course weddings and funerals are optional! I can see you just want to force kids to do whatever the parent says. That’s toxic. I had a mom like that. I literally don’t talk to her anymore. I don’t need that abuse.
A wedding invite is just that; an invitation. It’s not a summons!
Chores are different. They’re the cost of living in a home.
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Jem

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Oh my! Of course weddings and funerals are optional! I can see you just want to force kids to do whatever the parent says. That’s toxic. I had a mom like that. I literally don’t talk to her anymore. I don’t need that abuse.
A wedding invite is just that; an invitation. It’s not a summons!
Chores are different. They’re the cost of living in a home.

I am not contradicting your lived experience, but I don't think a blanket statement of toxicity is appropriate here. The word "force" comes across as a bit extreme, but within reason I DO think that kids should do what the parent says. "Forcing" a toddler to go to bed when she wants to play late at night is not "toxic," it is good parenting. Having rules for screen time for pre-teens is not "toxic," it is good parenting. "Forcing" high-schoolers to take their studies seriously and be involved in family events is not "toxic," it is good parenting.

I think good parenting includes talking to and listening to your kids and coming to agreements as to various issues, especially as they get older. But so long as the "adult child" is financially supported by the parents and living under the parents' roof I do think the parents get to tell the child what the expectations are to continue in that arrangement. If the "adult child" does not want the parents telling her what to do then she should become 100% independent.

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gramma dishes

People might skip a family holiday once in awhile and think afterwards "I had a great time on my beach vacation with my friends, but in truth I kind of missed the traditional holiday celebrations with my family.  I think next year if the opportunity to go somewhere arises, I'll just stay home with my family."

But that same person, if after having caved in to family pressure and stayed home for an afternoon of someone else's choice of movie and board games, had to listen to my friends relive the fantastic beach vacation they had and all the places they went and the things they did, he or she might very well grow super resentful of the family that imposed their wishes on him/her and decide that was their very last Christmas at home EVER!
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Hmmm

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I don't think I have ever before heard anyone equate spending Christmas with family as an obligation equal to chores.

Is she obligated to do chores?  Why?  What if she would rather hang out with her friends than do the chores?

She's an adult.  Isn't she  entitled to spend her time however she pleases?

To me, family time or holidays shouldn’t be obligation. It should be because one “wants” to celebrate. I get that she’s always had to do what her family wants, but she’s becoming a little bit independent now. Trying to nip that in the bud will damage her relationship with her family.

So, she "wants" to do chores?  What if she doesn't?

Why is spending time with her family optional but chores aren't?  What if her sibling was getting married?  Is she obligated to attend that?  How about a family funeral?
 
If family Christmas is boring, why should they reschedule it?  Won't she be just as bored if they do it on another day?  Wouldn't she be happier partying with her friends and her boyfriend?

She's an adult, why can't she just do whatever she wants without regard for what her parents want?

Oh my! Of course weddings and funerals are optional! I can see you just want to force kids to do whatever the parent says. That’s toxic. I had a mom like that. I literally don’t talk to her anymore. I don’t need that abuse.
A wedding invite is just that; an invitation. It’s not a summons!
Chores are different. They’re the cost of living in a home.

I think you both are talking extremes. Yes, family obligations can be presented in such a way that they are overbearing and toxic. But in most cases, that is not the case. Young adults need to understand that if they want to be an active member of their family and get the support of their family then they need to also offer support. My children are now in their early 20's. They know that if they don't show up for the weddings, funerals, graduations or other family events, then they can't grumble if extended family doesn't show up to their life events.

My DD is particularly aware of this. My kid's have 2 male cousin's and 1 female cousin, all about 6 to 12 years older than them. Years ago, the oldest cousin had been living out of state for around 3 years and we had not seen her. She would be at her parent's home for about a week, which is a 3 hour drive from where we live. All of our side of the family was going to be in our town for a weekend. This cousin's mother and brother were driving in but the eldest cousin decided she rather stay "to visit with her friends who she had not seen in awhile" (direct quote from her mother). DD was around 12 at the time and said "Well, I now where we rate." A few years later, this cousin was hurt that none of her cousins or extended family  traveled to far off destination wedding. However, she never put a priority on spending time with "the family" and her parents never made her feel obligated to attend family events. My 2 kids are actually pretty close to their 2 male cousins because they did make time to spend with the family.

And even in nucleus family, you want me to go out of my way to accomodate you, then you need to show me the same level of commitment once you hit adult-ish age.
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lowspark

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When my kids went off to university, it was always understood that they could decide how they wanted to spend their holidays. Mostly, they came home but sometimes they spent part of the holiday elsewhere. At that age, I think they are somewhere between childhood and adulthood, and part of making that transition is learning to make your own decisions and plans, while also taking family and friends into consideration. That's not always easy, even as adults, but you have to gain experience in order to learn.

I committed to putting my kids through four years of higher education to the best of my financial ability. That commitment was meant to be "no strings attached" with the exception of expecting them to maintain their grades. It was not a business contract, as in, I pay and that gives me the right to make all your decisions for you.

And when you equate spending time with family to chores, well, then it becomes a chore rather than a pleasant choice. I never want my kids to think of spending time with me as a chore or obligation. I want them to think of it as a pleasure.

So, as you can surmise, I'm on the side of Jessica. John needs to realize that his baby is growing up and he needs to begin to let go. The more tightly he holds on, the more Jessica will try to break the bonds. And at some point, when she is no longer financially dependent, there's a good chance she'll bolt.

One question I have: Before Jessica made (or at least announced) her plans, did John make any effort to include Jessica's boyfriend in their holiday plans? Did they invite him, even if not for Christmas day, to spend at least a part of his holiday with them?
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