Bad Manners and Brimstone
General Etiquette => Etiquette Phrases and Tactics => Topic started by: Aleko on August 04, 2018, 11:53:55 am
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Isn't it odd how many utterly conventional social remarks are at best useless as conversational gambits - there being no polite response other than a sickly smile - and at worst downright annoying for the person they are directed at?
Here's the kind of thing I mean:
First up, 'My, haven't you grown!' Generations of children have fought down the impulse to say 'Of course I have, you didn't expect me to stop the same size, did you?' Extra demerits if, like many of my aunts and distant cousins, you follow this up with 'I haven't seen you since you were in your pram!' which invites the reply 'So, if you'd engaged your brain, you'd realise I haven't the faintest idea who you are'.
Next (to the bride): 'How does it feel to be Mrs [Bridegroom's surname]?' Nobody should ever say this - especially nowadays when there is no certainty at all that she plans to change her name - but it's amazing how many people do. It's futile even if the bride has decided to take her new husband's surname and is happy with that, because there still is no response to this other than a sickly smile. If she has decided not to, she has to choose between rebuffing this kindly person's well-meant remark with a curt 'Actually it doesn't, because I'm not', or just producing a gritted-teeth smile. If she didn't want to change her name but has been bullied into it, you'll be lucky if she doesn't whack you with her bouquet and burst into tears.
And 'I've heard so much about you!' This includes all kinds of dire possibilities, and the sayee's options boil down to either making some sickly joke along the lines of 'It's all lies, you know!' 'Then I'd better flee at once!' or, as with the previous phrases, a sickly smile. For Pete's sake, at least give them something to work with: 'I've heard so much about your garden / your pet refuge / your and Jane's trainspotting holidays!'
Has anybody else any conventional remarks that they don't want to hear ever again?
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I don't know... Sometimes those things are just part of the niceties we exchange when getting a conversation going. Hearing "my, how you've grown" is just a starter-- it can truly be a surprise to some people to see that the little 12 year old neighbor is now an 18-year old in college, and looking very much like a grown man. Sometimes we're caught by surprise by the years that have passed. It just opens the discussion to what everyone has been doing for the last six years.
I do see how the "Mrs. Hisname" question can lead to an awkward moment, though. That's actually making an assumption about the bride. Hopefully most brides know they'll encounter those friends and family with such comments, and be able to brush it off without taking a ton of offense where truly none was intended.
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It's true that you don't know what someone's name will be after marriage.
I personally have taken the idea of "to be Mrs. Smith" to be more metaphorical than literal.
But yes, it's risky.
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'My, haven't you grown!'
The obvious reply is
My, haven't you aged?
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'My, haven't you grown!'
The obvious reply is
My, haven't you aged?
Or, subtly, "So have you!"
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Sometimes those things are just part of the niceties we exchange when getting a conversation going. Hearing "my, how you've grown" is just a starter-- it can truly be a surprise to some people to see that the little 12 year old neighbor is now an in college, and looking very much like a grown man.
Yes, but they should have the wit to realise that the surprise is only on their side, and 18-year old is aware that he has grown up since he saw you last, thanks very much. And that every child who has ever been the recipient of this remark has found it annoying.
In fact as a general rule, surprise at the appearance of people you meet (e.g. 'My, isn't he tall!' 'What red hair!' or 'Wow, these twins look exactly alike!') should be kept to yourself. Even if the observation is harmless, it is tiresome - because it isn't news to them, and there is no non-snarky response to be made to such remarks.
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To be honest, I usually didn’t mind those comments because it made me remember that I did know this person once and she remembered me and it was fleeting and not needing a response other than a head nod or thank. Yes, even when I was older. It is often a way people acknowledge the presence of a kid before he is ignored the rest of the visit.
As a child, I didn’t mind being told I looked like my mother because she was a hardworking ordinary looking woman. Even at my brother's funeral, most of the visitors were taught by my mom or knew her through the church so I got many "you look just like your mother!" comments. Well, she’s been gone 50 years and there are still people who remember her!
Do I refrain from these comments to children? Usually, merely because they sound so lame when in a movie or tv show and the kid actor seems uncomfortable.
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I guess we're not going to see eye to eye on this. :)
I don't think of the speaker as trying to reveal to the 18 year old that he has grown; just stating their own realization of the extent of that fact. Like someone saying, "wow, it's cold outside!" Is just making an exclamation about thier own perceptions, not trying to educate others around them.
I was a child who heard the "you've grown" remark from time to time, and absolutely did not hate it. It was just an ordinary comment. I guess I'm somehow excluded from that group of all children who have ever heard this comment.
And there are plenty of non-snarky responses. That's hardly a challenge: "Yeah, it's been a while, hasn't it?" "Yep, I in college now!" "Yeah, I think the last time we talked was at camp in '09!"
I'm just not going to start coming down hard on any comment that points out someone's observation of a fact, or a statement about another person that isn't disguising harsh judgement.
Most responsibility for thoughtful communication falls rightly on the speaker, but the listener also bears some share of the burden of understanding and reasonable interpretation.
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I'd give a pass for answering "my, how you've grown!" with things like "not lately" (if the person is 18 and has been the same height for four years) or "that's what people keep telling me." The problem with "How does it feel to be Mrs. Hisname?" is that even if she is changing her name, or if she parses that as "how does it feel to be married?" the most likely answers if that's asked immediately after the wedding are variations on "I don't know yet," because the things a just-married person is likely to feel at the reception include being overwhelmed by the whole planning-and-having-a-wedding thing, pleasure at having family and friends there, and wondering what married life will actually be like, especially if they're relatively conservative and waiting until after the wedding to either have sex or move in together.
Even at the most literal, I'd understand a just-married woman saying "I'm not looking forward to all the forms I'm going to have to fill out." Even in a state where you can change your name at marriage by putting the new surname on the license application, the Department of Vital Records isn't going to notify your bank, employer, college registrar, doctor's office, Department of Motor Vehicles....
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Sorry, none of these are that bad to me is used in proper context. The 12 & under set are not going to be offended by "My, how you have grown". And saying it does not imply the speaker expected you to not grow at all. Only a petulant 15 year old would become so irritated in a harmless remark. If you want to take the stand that people's physical characteristics shouldn't be remarked upon, then fine. Growing up, being asked "where did you get those eyes" was much more irritating.
If the person, hasn't been introduced and then wants you to guess who they are, then yes the pram comment is annoying.
The "I've heard so much about you" is usually an indication that yes, I've heard someone prattle on about you but can't remember one thing said.
The Mrs comment would bug some brides but not all. To me it's harmless.
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"Oh my gosh! you're that old!! You sure don't look like it" I usually want to reply "just what is a person my age supposed to look like?" I mostly just smile and go on without saying anything. Youthfullness runs in my family on my Mother's side and I'm not going to apologize for that!!
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"Oh my gosh! you're that old!! You sure don't look like it" I usually want to reply "just what is a person my age supposed to look like?" I mostly just smile and go on without saying anything. Youthfullness runs in my family on my Mother's side and I'm not going to apologize for that!!
A small smile and "Thanks" is all I do.
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I am not sure that etiquette always agrees with me, but I always look at the intentions of the person. These are just conversations starters; the person is simply trying to converse. Maybe there are better openers, but these are common enough. Rather than take offense, I try to steer the conversation by answering what the question that is really being asked.
'My, haven't you grown!' is really working towards "What have you been doing all these years?" This is where the adolescent or young adult can discuss activities, education, or career direction.
'How does it feel to be Mrs [Bridegroom's surname]?' is really "Gush to me about how wonderful your wedding/marriage is." I do not think that the person is making any kind of assumption on the name to be taken (or not), but this would be the perfect opportunity for the bride to make the announcement. "Oh, I am actually not going to be taking his last name, but the wedding..."
'I've heard so much about you!' is just saying that you have a mutual friend who has already mentioned you. I think that this is an opener to talk about that friend or yourself or the other person or really anything. It is simply acknowledgment that you are not a complete stranger to them. Without this being said, you may not realize that this person knows at least a little something about you and could lead to other awkward moments.
I guess I just do not see them as all that terrible.
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I know there are plenty who will disagree with me, but I'll go ahead and put this out there regarding offense being taken when referred to as "Mrs. (Groom'slastname)":
I understand that your name may not change once your married, but Mrs. Groom'slastname is an appropriate *title*.
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Like DaDancing Psych, I would view most of these, if well-intentioned, as not-so-eloquent conversation starters. I wouldn’t be offended by most of them.
I know there are plenty who will disagree with me, but I'll go ahead and put this out there regarding offense being taken when referred to as "Mrs. (Groom'slastname)":
I understand that your name may not change once your married, but Mrs. Groom'slastname is an appropriate *title*.
I wouldn’t be offended by someone asking me how it felt to be mrs. his last name (though I’ve always thought it a silly question), but I would let them know that I kept my name. However, I assure you that Mrs. His Last Name is NOT an appropriate title for me, and anybody who continued to use it out of some sense of etiquette would eventually be ignored. I have a name, or if you truly want a title, call me Dr., but calling someone by the wrong name is not appropriate.
Of course, I wouldn’t throw a fit or anything, but I did start tossing mail unopened from my one relative who, after years, continued to send mail to “Mrs. His First Name His Last Name.” Sorry - nobody here by that name. (And this person was not an older generation - in fact, her nearly 80 year old mother sends mail with the correct name.)
Edited because apparently I can’t type well on a phone!
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'My, haven't you grown!'
The obvious reply is
My, haven't you aged?
What an amusing response. I think everyone should say that, especially kids. Teach them how to be a comedian early, the kind that insults people. Great career aspirations.
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I know there are plenty who will disagree with me, but I'll go ahead and put this out there regarding offense being taken when referred to as "Mrs. (Groom'slastname)":
I understand that your name may not change once your married, but Mrs. Groom'slastname is an appropriate *title*.
I obviously haven't made myself clear. I never said, nor would I, that any of the remarks I listed were offensive. I said that they were futile (in that there is no polite response to them other than a sickly smile) and were frequently annoying. Plenty of remarks that are not offensive are intensely annoying . (I often think, as my MIL picks up the restaurant menu, that if she trills "Oh, this will be too much for me to eat, I have such a small appetite!" one more time, I'll SCREAM. But I would never assert that this remark was 'offensive'.)
And, Oogyda: if a bride decides not to change her surname on marriage, 'Mrs Groom'slastname' is an only an appropriate title for her in the sense that Mr Bride'slastname' is an appropriate title for her husband.
Though, come to think of it, asking the groom at a wedding reception "How does it feel to be 'Mr Bride'slastname'?" would at least be an interesting conversational ploy.
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Count me as having been a teen who found the "My, how you've grown" comment both ridiculously obvious and condescending. My usual response was to roll my eyes. After the third time I heard it as a teen I made a promise to myself that I would never say this to any child.
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It depends on the person. My friend's daughter loved remarks on her height. I don't visit often, but every time I do, I'd comment how she's grown and she'd brag how she'll be taller than me by the time she's 10 :D. Now that she's a teenager, it's our inside joke.
I wouldn't say it to a person I don't know as well though. However, "How you've grown" or "You were just a baby the last time I saw you" is just a thing to say just to make small talk to break the ice. It may be eye-rolling for some, but for me, I don't even remember it after a few minutes when it was used on me as a kid.
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I don’t mind the ones mentioned, but whatever possesses a person to say, "I used to change your diapers!"?
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Sometimes I say to the kids at church, when I haven't seen them in a while, "Every time I see you, you just look older! How are you doing that?!?"
As if it's an amazing magic trick. But I never wait for them to answer.
I just waltz right ahead into, "Now, what grade are you in? I can never remember, and of course, you keep changing it every year."
They seem to get that I'm making a joke.
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To be honest, I usually didn’t mind those comments because it made me remember that I did know this person once and she remembered me and it was fleeting and not needing a response other than a head nod or thank. Yes, even when I was older. It is often a way people acknowledge the presence of a kid before he is ignored the rest of the visit.
As a child, I didn’t mind being told I looked like my mother because she was a hardworking ordinary looking woman. Even at my brother's funeral, most of the visitors were taught by my mom or knew her through the church so I got many "you look just like your mother!" comments. Well, she’s been gone 50 years and there are still people who remember her!
Do I refrain from these comments to children? Usually, merely because they sound so lame when in a movie or tv show and the kid actor seems uncomfortable.
Luci, I am often told that I look like my mother. To which I have always said, "Thank you!"
A few years ago, my mother told me that when I was little, I would say it with an inflection that implied that they had just said I was one of the most beautiful people on earth. I looked at her and said, "Yep!"
She almost fell off of her chair, she was laughing so hard! And, yes, I do think it is a compliment to be compared to my mother, especially her kindness and intelligence.
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It's true that you don't know what someone's name will be after marriage.
I personally have taken the idea of "to be Mrs. Smith" to be more metaphorical than literal.
But yes, it's risky.
Not only that, but assuming the husband's surname for legal and social reasons doesn't mean you are going to be a different person, especially since most brides and grooms are a committed couple quite a while before the actual ceremony, especially 'nowadays.'
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'My, haven't you grown!'
The obvious reply is
My, haven't you aged?
My Uncle (who had a strange wit) used that once when we were in a restaurant and had a waitress who was possibly the slowest server on record.
It wasn’t kind of him but it was accurate.