Bad Manners and Brimstone

Today I was at a medical office.  The nurse had never met me before, so she'd either have to memorize my name or keep looking at the paper, and on top of that the pronunciation of my last name isn't immediately obvious -- a situation in which "dear," "hon," and the dreaded "young lady" (my pet peeve, especially from people younger than the person they are addressing, which makes it extra condescending) often appear. 

Instead, she called me "my friend" -- e.g., "Come on in, my friend."  I thought that this was a really good choice!  Both familiar and respectful.  (If it matters, I would guess she was in her 30s; I am 63.)

I complimented her and thanked her for teaching me something valuable today.  I think it would be great if "my friend" caught on as a general term of address.  Avoids gender questions, too!  (In English, anyway.)

I agree.  Some people on the old board said they hate being called "ma'am," which I just find really sad.

"Ma'am" is simply the polite and respectful form of address for an adult woman, exactly like "Sir" for an adult man. 

Men aren't insulted by being acknowledged to be adults.  They insist on it.  It is unquestionably condescending or worse to call a man "young man," "sonny," or "boy."  If the equivalent for women is considered insulting or troubling, what does that say about our view of grown up women?  I am so sorry that there are still some women who would prefer people to pretend to take them for girls, not adults, and that there are people who think it's a compliment to a woman to address and treat her as a girl.

As I recall, the posters who said they don't like being called "ma'am" said that the reason was that it made them feel old.  Well, there it is -- that's only a problem if you accept that old (and we aren't even talking about elderly, just fully adult) is bad -- especially, of course, for women. 

To consider "ma'am" anything but respectful and polite is to validate the idea that youth and looks are what REALLY matter about a woman -- not the things that come with adulthood, like experience, competence, knowledge, and sometimes power.  It's bad enough when age is ridiculed, not respected, in both men and women.  But when that ageism is coupled with sexism, such that acknowledging maturity is respectful for a man but insulting for a woman, it's really a problem.

I always liked ma'am.  I thought it was very respectful.  My friend is kind of nice as well.

I don't like any of the options discussed above (and not because they make me feel old but because I think they a all come across to me as unnecessary and insincere). I feel that in most circumstances, no form of address is needed.

"May I help you?"
"We are ready for you."
"Right this way."

This is the traditional British way. When speaking to people we don't use either titles or names anything like as routinely as Americans do. (This makes it a lot easier for (for example) DILs and SILs whose mothers-in-law have invited them to 'just call me Mummy!': we find it possible to interact with people for literally decades without calling them anything at all.) When we do use titles, we rarely start a sentence with them. On Notalwaysright, for example, I notice that employees' remarks to customers and clients often begin 'Sir ...' Nobody would naturally do that in Britain; if anyone uses the word it ends the sentence, and what's more it frequently implies irony or outright menace. If a British policeman says mildly 'I wouldn't do that if I were you, sir' - don't do it.

I also prefer it when I'm starting a morning meeting and "Ladies and Gentleman" feels gender biased. I'll say, or "Welcome friends" or "Honored Guests" or "Distinguished Guests."

I think different people just naturally prefer different things. I don't like false intimacy, personally, whether giving or receiving, so I would never say "Welcome friends" and while it doesn't offend me it doesn't make me feel "warm and fuzzy" either. I think it more just makes me think "that's kinda weird" if said by someone who does not even know me.

When I do presentations or run meetings I typically start with, "Good morning! Thank you for being here. Our first topic....." The more I think about this the more certain I am that I avoid using terms like sir, ma'am, friend, etc in general! I also ask people to address me by my first name because I don't like to be referred to as Mrs. My Husband's name or Ms. My Maiden/Professional name. I am a lawyer and it makes me CRAZY to call another lawyer and have his or her assistant say, "Attorney Smith is not in." Do they seriously refer to their coworker, even if that coworker is their boss, as Attorney Smith?!?!?

Quote]I'm "of a certain age" but don't always mind the "young lady" address when it's obviously used in a respectfully friendly way by people my age or older. I figure by calling me "young lady" they are just trying to view themselves as a "young lady" or "young gentleman" themselves.[/quote]

I loathe being called ‘young lady’ by anyone. I loathed it back when I actually was young. It’s belittling; just as belittling as it is to address a young man as ‘Young man’.  And to call a mature woman ‘young lady’ amounts to saying ‘I’m being gallant by pretending you’re not past your sell-by date, even though you obviously are’.  (I don’t actually look my age, but I’m dead sure that nobody could possibly peg me for less than 40, even in the dusk with the light behind me.)

And I’m also in the camp that dislikes being called ‘friend’ by people with whom I have a purely professional or commercial relationship, never mind the ones I don’t know from Adam. It feels creepy and encroaching to me. And although some people who use it say it’s just an expression of friendly intent - that they’re sure I’m a nice person who they would make a friend of if they knew me - I feel that it demeans genuine friendship, which is a precious enough thing that I feel its name shouldn’t be slung around lightly.

Quote

it makes me CRAZY to call another lawyer and have his or her assistant say, "Attorney Smith is not in." Do they seriously refer to their coworker, even if that coworker is their boss, as Attorney Smith?!?!?

I think answering the phone is a little bit different. It's a way of confirming the person's role and authority.

In the context I refer to, these are people who I have worked with for years. They know who I am, and they know I know who the lawyers are. I am not objecting to answering the phone "Attorney Smith's office." I am saying I find it weird to continually refer to someone I refer to professionally as John as "Attorney Smith" when talking to me about where John is.

I personally don't answer my office phone with "Hello, this is Attorney Jem." I answer my phone, "Hello, this is Jem."

that's nice!


 I wish that "ma'am" especially didn't get so much opposition.

but "my friend" is nice because it avoids the gender assumptions, and that can be useful.

I agree. I've never had a problem with being referred to as ma'am. I've worked with a lot of ex-military and still hear "yes, sir" and "yes, ma'am" often. I even get emails addressed as ma'am.

Being called "my friend" in a professional setting would be surprising to me if coming from someone who seems to be a native English speaker. But then I realized there are some business's I frequent who do refer to their customers as "my friend" and that has never seemed wrong. So I shall recognize my bias and enjoy being reffed to as a friend in any situation.