Bad Manners and Brimstone

I find that when someone says something I find really offensive or otherwise dislikeable, a handy tactic can be to pretend to believe it was said in joke, and rebuke the sayer along the lines of 'don't joke like that, what if someone took you seriously?'

An example is the second letter in the Miss Manners column today: https://www.uexpress.com/life/miss-manners/2022/07/15. LW asks for advice about 'a slightly older friend, a very dear and loving woman, who often seems very anxious over a plethora of small things, including anything in my life that she deems worrying'. LW has just bought a house - a process in which she says Friend has invested far too much curiosity and downright worry - and now she is preparing to move, Friend 'has repeatedly insisted I allow her to help me pack, unpack, lay shelf liner, clean the bathroom and cook'. LW has her own children lined up to provide all the help she needs, and actively doesn't want 'a casual friend going through boxes of my personal items or generally being underfoot', so has explicitly declined each time. To which Friend's response 'is something like she "just might have to help, whether I want her to or not."' Friend asks 'what I could do to let her feel helpful, as this is clearly so important to her, without feeling like I have my mother hovering over me or invading my personal space.'

My own feeling is that a person so hell-bent on invading someone else's new home and interfering with their belongings is not likely to be satisfied or distracted for very long by being given some trifling, non-invasive task. I would suggest rocking her right back on her heels, something like this: -

"Whoa, Sally! That's just not funny. You shouldn't make jokes like that. Don't you realise that if I took you seriously - that if I believed even for a moment that you could disrespect me and my wishes in that way - I wouldn't ever feel comfortable leaving you unsupervised in my home, even for a moment?"

This would leave her no choice but to agree that it had been a joke, haha, that she would never dream of actually doing such a thing, and hopefully would shut her up on the subject altogether. (But I still wouldn't ever leave her unsupervised in my home.)

Has anyone any other thoughts about dealing with this situation?

Why couldn't this new homeowner say something like "it's generous of you to offer your help but I've got everything covered and when I'm finally settled I'll give you a call so we can visit."  Then if this interfering  "friend" insists, the homeowner will just have to say "I'm sorry, but I have all the help I need right now.  I'll get in touch with you soon."  When people try to run your life you just have to stand your ground sometimes.

I might say, with humor, "Thou shalt not covet thy friend's moving experience."

Well, in real life, maybe not; I'd use sandisadie's. But i know it wouldn't be enough.

So then I might say, "I have everything all set, and I really prefer to handle this my own way. It's nice of you to be worried, but please stop asking about this, it is stressing me out. I appreciate that you want to help, but the best way you can help is by dropping the topic and trusting that if I need your help, you have made me comfortable about asking. I'm one of those people who prefers to have control over how things get done in my home."

I have used a version of this with people who want to help me with clean-up in the kitchen when I'm hosting a dinner party.

I did like MM's suggestion about leaving the subject (and possibly the house, old or new) - I was thinking along the lines "I just want to think about something besides MOVING - let's go get coffee (or lunch) and talk for a while - I need a break anyway!"

This won’t be a popular opinion, but I have had friends who won’t take no for an answer. And friends who have wanted to mother me. I don’t like it. And I won’t accommodate it.

I dislike the feeling of saying no twice. I dislike any tactics that take up more time, such as distracting the person with “I just need a break”, and having to spend an afternoon with someone, not because we want to spend time together but in the hopes that I will satisfy her need to control my life.

It is very “mother like” isn’t it? To not trust someone to pack the way they think is right and to put things in the right place?

It could be the relationship I had with my mother who would criticize everything I did. That dresser is ugly, why did you paint this colour, isn’t that picture frame cheap, always followed with let me do it, let me be there, let me decide.

Why does this woman feel she “just might have to come and help anyway?”.

I can’t imagine asking one “would you like me to help you cut the cake?” And upon hearing no, just saying as I grab the knife and push her away with my hip, well “I will just have to anyway. It doesn’t after to me that this is your event. Your home. I’ll just do this anyway. I must”

It’s intrusive. It’s soft intimidation. It’s “I will only feel right if you do what I say.” “If you don’t let me you’re hurting me and that’s on you.” Or, “If you don’t everyone will see how you’re treating me.”

We have a right to our homes. I will indulge egos and sensitivities at work and in the grocery store, and anywhere else. I don’t care if people are rude and butt in line, or put their items in the wrong part of the belt, or count change, it’s not worth the fight.

I understand people at work need to be heard, and they need to do things their way and I try my best to work with them in the way they want, and listen to their stories and massage their egos so we can all accomplish the task.

But in my home, that’s where I get to be me. I get to express myself. I have paper books on shelves instead of everything on my iPad, despite what people think. I have artwork I like placed where I like. I’ve painted the walls the colours I’ve wanted, and bought the furniture I like.

I don’t want someone else coming in and packing up my things and telling me what should go where and how to do this and that.

I’ll take that anywhere but my home. And if someone hears me say, no thank you, more than once and tells me they will have to anyway, they will never be invited into my space again.

They clearly think it’s wrong. And they maybe right. But I reserve the right to come to that conclusion in my own time or not.

So this particular, mothering, condescending, controlling behaviour. I just wouldn’t tolerate. And I haven’t. I have lost good friends over this. And I’m ok with that.

Whenever a now-ex-friend would visit me she would change my bath tissue so that it hung next to the wall instead of outward. It was too small a thing to get excited about and I would just always switch it back when she left, but it was a red flag I didn't heed. Midway into our friendship she started showing me how to do things that I had been doing ever since I was, well, an independent adult, as if she felt she was my teacher, and my (silent) irritation grew. When her husband started doing the same thing to me I realized that was the way these people related to the world and that it made them feel superior to others including me. It was hard to break off the friendship because I really liked her otherwise, but I couldn't stand the idea of them looking down their noses at me "teaching" me things.