Author Topic: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?  (Read 4888 times)

TootsNYC

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Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #75 on: August 12, 2020, 01:59:29 pm »
Quote
...The way you described upthread how you deal with your own "jealousy" and how you have coached Brielle to act when she is jealous comes across, to me at least, as very dysfunctional and inappropriate. There is no reason to tear anyone else down or diminish their accomplishments in order to make yourself feel better. This is a very immature and counterproductive way of dealing with jealousy.

Your quote above makes it seem as though you really do not see how you are harming Brielle's development. She is not always going to be the scene stealer. She should not WANT to always be the scene stealer. Describing a wedding as "a pile of bad" is just.....weird to me. The point of the wedding is the wedding, and it is a good thing! If you really think the wedding is "a pile of bad" then you really should not attend. Really, don't go if you think that the wedding is only palatable if Brielle gets to steal the scene with her "advanced dance moves."

Quote
... OP, you are exhausting and just not getting it.  The head space, time and energy you are putting into cajoling your child into behaving appropriately is mind boggling.  You have created this behavior and you continue to enable it.

This kind of language bothers me. It's not very welcoming or friendly, and not at all kind.

why would anyone want to keep coming back to have conversations here if this is what they get?
I'm not saying you have to always agree, but let's not use mean words.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 02:03:18 pm by TootsNYC »
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Lady B

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Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #76 on: August 12, 2020, 02:20:36 pm »
Let's all just take a breath.  No one here has any bad intent.  Maybe just refocus a bit and stick to the issues at hand.

While there is no obligation for anyone asking for advice to take the advice that they get, it is important they carefully consider it out of respect for the people who took the time to respond.

By the same token, if you don't feel someone is "getting it" then the onus is on you to either let it go or make your position more clear.

What's not good is attacking the OP, and attacking each other because you don't agree with what they are saying, how they are saying it, etc, etc, etc.

Also remember on Ehell when an OP would become defensive--that's when the fur would fly.  It seems to be a law of the universe.  It's hard for OPs to realize that the more defensive they become, the more that is read as not being open to listening to the advice they asked for in the first place!  It's a downward spiral.

Everyone here is better than that!

So, get this back on track!  :)
 
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Lady B

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Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #77 on: August 12, 2020, 02:24:09 pm »
Aleko, gramma dishes and Jem have hit the nail on the head.  OP, you are exhausting and just not getting it.  The head space, time and energy you are putting into cajoling your child into behaving appropriately is mind boggling.  You have created this behavior and you continue to enable it.

It's never ok to address an OP like this.  If you find someone exhausting go take a nap!   8)
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Dr. F.

Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #78 on: August 12, 2020, 02:30:45 pm »
Kimpossible just said what I've been trying to figure out how to say.  What a grown up did a year ago reflects on what kind of person they are.  A year for a seven year old is a long long time ago.  My daughter at seven fully intended to be a horse one day, she even picked a spot in our backyard where her stall would be.  Sadly, it didn't work out for her  ;D.

I miss those days.

I wanted to be a pirate sacking the Spanish Main. Or a horse.

I am now a librarian. It seemed like a better career choice.  ;D ;D

Well, it's safer  ;)

Maybe.
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SparklingIce

Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #79 on: August 12, 2020, 03:31:49 pm »
We are working on it the best we can, especially for an event that is over 3 months away. We can either play up the excitement of something that was a bad experience and make her look forward to it, or we can just leave it alone. I'd rather the former. I personally trust my daughter will be able to handle it when the time comes. We can't predict what she will do, but as long as we make her feel good about being a guest, it's a step in the right direction. What more can we do?
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oogyda

Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #80 on: August 12, 2020, 04:41:39 pm »
Let's all just take a breath.  No one here has any bad intent.  Maybe just refocus a bit and stick to the issues at hand.

While there is no obligation for anyone asking for advice to take the advice that they get, it is important they carefully consider it out of respect for the people who took the time to respond.

By the same token, if you don't feel someone is "getting it" then the onus is on you to either let it go or make your position more clear.

What's not good is attacking the OP, and attacking each other because you don't agree with what they are saying, how they are saying it, etc, etc, etc.

Also remember on Ehell when an OP would become defensive--that's when the fur would fly.  It seems to be a law of the universe.  It's hard for OPs to realize that the more defensive they become, the more that is read as not being open to listening to the advice they asked for in the first place!  It's a downward spiral.

Everyone here is better than that!

So, get this back on track!  :)

The biggest problems arise when some posters tell others what tone they *should* use. 

Lady B

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Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2020, 06:34:08 pm »
Let's all just take a breath.  No one here has any bad intent.  Maybe just refocus a bit and stick to the issues at hand.

While there is no obligation for anyone asking for advice to take the advice that they get, it is important they carefully consider it out of respect for the people who took the time to respond.

By the same token, if you don't feel someone is "getting it" then the onus is on you to either let it go or make your position more clear.

What's not good is attacking the OP, and attacking each other because you don't agree with what they are saying, how they are saying it, etc, etc, etc.

Also remember on Ehell when an OP would become defensive--that's when the fur would fly.  It seems to be a law of the universe.  It's hard for OPs to realize that the more defensive they become, the more that is read as not being open to listening to the advice they asked for in the first place!  It's a downward spiral.

Everyone here is better than that!

So, get this back on track!  :)

The biggest problems arise when some posters tell others what tone they *should* use.

Or when they passively aggressively call out someone they have issues with...

Focus!  FOCUS!!!


lisastitch

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Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #82 on: August 12, 2020, 07:41:04 pm »
Your daughter is reminding me of my daughter at around that age.  I don't know if it's true, but DD was (and still is) emotionally intense.  It felt as if her emotions were water in a jelly roll pan, and it didn't take much for the water to tip out, and she would have a melt-down.  We worked really hard with her to help her learn to manage her emotions.  She's now in her 30s, and a delight.

The two books that really helped me were How to Talk so Kids Will Listen, and Listen so Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber, and Raising Your Spirited Child , by Mary Kurcinka.  The first talks about listening to the emotions behind the actions and addressing and acknowledging them, while also establishing rules for proper behavior.  The second has suggestions for dealing with a child who is "more intense, sensitive, perceptive, persistent, and energetic".  Both books have been around a while, but I think they're still available. 
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vintagegal

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Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2020, 06:26:49 am »
We are working on it the best we can, especially for an event that is over 3 months away. We can either play up the excitement of something that was a bad experience and make her look forward to it, or we can just leave it alone. I'd rather the former. I personally trust my daughter will be able to handle it when the time comes. We can't predict what she will do, but as long as we make her feel good about being a guest, it's a step in the right direction. What more can we do?

I bet she will be fine. She's 7. Let's not expect too much from her. Either she has a good time and behaves, or she can't handle it and you all make an early exit. Either way, not a big deal.
 Sounds like she has good parents.
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gellchom

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Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2020, 07:13:58 am »
I hope my tone will be okay!  OP, I really am in your corner here.  I think nearly everyone has been, even those whose comments are harder to hear.

I do agree with the posters who have said that encouraging Brielle to think about how she can steal the scene and be the focus of attention is a mistake, though.  I believe that will be counterproductive.

This is important: She may well have internalized that what everyone loves and values about her — including her parents — is that she is exceptional, a star, a princess.   But of course that’s not true!  You have told us that she is funny and creative and clever.  She is kind to her friends and a good team member.  You value her character, not just her pizzazz.  Most important, you love her just because she is HER, not because she is a “winner” or a “star.”

It’s easy to assume she would know that naturally.  But she very well might not.  She needs to hear it from YOU, over and over, and more important, SEE it in how you respond to her and talk about situations and how big a deal you make about “Star” moments and how big a deal you make about character moments and audience and friend moments.  I have seen many children, especially ones who are exceptional in some way (talent, brains, beauty, etc.), who don’t realize this.  They are afraid that if they don’t get the A+ or the trophy or the attention on the dance floor that they will disappoint their parents.  Worse, if their sense of identity depends on it, they won’t even be themselves anymore if they don’t.

That’s why I suggested steering her away from competitive situations, to unlearn that zero-sum, “if someone else has attention or success, then I don’t, and that’s what counts” mind set, as exemplified in her “dodo head” response to a talented child on TV.

Yes, of course all parents want success for their children.  But success does not by any means have to be celebrity or stardom, especially not the empty kind afforded by social media fame.  Not every parent wants that for their child, much less to risk a “Baby Jane.”  I’m sorry you felt some of us look down on pageants and competitive dance teams.  I’m not saying they’re bad!  Just that they may not be the best context for little Brielle right now, as she learns to value dancing and singing for the pure joy of it, not for the attention it gets her. 

You have a great opportunity handed to you right now with the wedding: you can talk about how much fun it will be to dance, not about how much attention it will get her.  Guess what the dessert will be.  Ask what color flowers she would choose.  See what I mean?  Help her learn to enjoy things that aren’t focused on herself.

And I repeat: she’s a kid!  Her character and self-esteem are forming, not formed.  You’ve caught this early and know what you need to do to help her get on track to be a confident, happy woman, not a superannuated fairy princess  :).  All kids need that with one thing or another.  You’re doing fine.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 02:05:52 pm by Gellchom »
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DaDancingPsych

Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2020, 11:09:53 am »
I haven’t read this thread in awhile and so much has happened! I don’t want to rehash things, but I feel like I have some firsthand knowledge that the OP might find helpful. And since the OP appears to want honest thoughts, I want to help.

I have been part of the dance competition world for years. I don’t have as much first hand pageant knowledge, but hopefully enough to get me by. Like all things that our children participate in, they can be positive experiences if done correctly. For example, if you allow your child to participate in soccer, but you insist that winning at all costs is the only thing that matters, then no, the lessons of teamwork and sportsmanship will be lost. The same goes for dance and pageants; there are many positive lessons to be learned. I think some of the poo-pooing on these activities may have come from a misunderstanding. They are nothing like the reality TV shows out there.  ::)

Even though you cannot participate in dance competitions at the moment, I think that you could take advantage of the interest to begin practicing some of the skills discussed here. YouTube has so many videos from dance competitions (and so many other activities and weddings with flower girls, too.) You could watch a video with her and witness the reaction. Maybe the lack of real time will create a more positive reaction, which is great. You can praise her and even add your own positive commentary. If she reacts less favorably or with any jealousy (even if masked as negative comments towards the person), you can practice finding good in the performance. The advantage I see is that you are in the comfort of your own home to practice these skills and will not feel the public judgement while practicing.

When you return back to competing live, remember to celebrate more than just your daughter’s performance. Placing is wonder and should be commended, but point out to her when she does positive things in other areas. “I thought it was wonderful that you applauded for everyone at awards!” “That was so great that you helped Sally out by sharing your bobby pins!” “I’m proud that you hugged Denise after she danced.” And don’t just compliment your daughter within group dances, point out what other kids did well. “Shelly has been working so hard on her pirouettes and she totally nailed them today!” Also some schools have started handing out good job trinkets to students from other schools. Usually it’s a piece of candy and a business card that says something positive. The child hands it to another child (stranger) after watching her perform and compliments her. It’s meant to teach sportsmanship and it might be something fun for the two of you to do (or you could even volunteer to assist the entire dance school with doing it.) Then your daughter would have to find another dancer who she appreciates and tell them that. That might help her with some of her feelings.

Also, I wanted to say that I do think that finding the fun things about weddings is a good idea. But dancing as a wedding guest isn’t about showing off one’s skills; it’s about connecting with others. I might stress how fun it will be to dance together and get to do the silly dances. My best wedding memories are dancing with my uncle who has no rhythm, not being put in the spotlight for my dancing skills.
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TootsNYC

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Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2020, 11:38:07 am »
One thing I love about the competitive sport of track and field is that for the vast majority of the athletes, they are competing against themselves.

Is their time better? their form better? their score better?
Everyone knows that only 3 people out of the 18 competing will stand on the medal platform.
And everyone knows that you cannot impede the performance of another athlete; it's not just rude, it's impossible! (unlike basketball, e.g., where you can block a shot or steal a pass)

You can only affect you, and your own performance.
But that has a lot of power.
And it's a useful mindset in lots of situations.

It's why "personal best" is such an achievement in track & field.
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Nikko-chan

Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #87 on: August 13, 2020, 09:30:41 pm »

Also, I wanted to say that I do think that finding the fun things about weddings is a good idea. But dancing as a wedding guest isn’t about showing off one’s skills; it’s about connecting with others. I might stress how fun it will be to dance together and get to do the silly dances. My best wedding memories are dancing with my uncle who has no rhythm, not being put in the spotlight for my dancing skills.

wanted to pop in here. I used to swing dance (not competitively) but my favorite memories of swing dancing? Where everyone that was still there would gather in a group and do the "penguin dance" (arms held straight down, hands out at our sides and you sorta hop from foot to foot) it was fun, and a good memory with a great group of people. And like that wedding memory with your uncle, thats what this was about. Just being silly with my friends.


syfygeek

Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2020, 09:13:04 am »
We are working on it the best we can, especially for an event that is over 3 months away. We can either play up the excitement of something that was a bad experience and make her look forward to it, or we can just leave it alone. I'd rather the former. I personally trust my daughter will be able to handle it when the time comes. We can't predict what she will do, but as long as we make her feel good about being a guest, it's a step in the right direction. What more can we do?

SparklingIce, all you can do is coach your daughter to be the best her she can be. There's been good advice given, take what works for you and give it your best shot.

If there is going to be dancing, teach your daughter the Cha Cha slide or one of the others. Then she can join the crowd and throw down if it's played. And it will be something fun for the two of you to do at home.
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DaDancingPsych

Re: Honorary Flower Girl - Sorta?
« Reply #89 on: August 15, 2020, 12:10:22 pm »

Also, I wanted to say that I do think that finding the fun things about weddings is a good idea. But dancing as a wedding guest isn’t about showing off one’s skills; it’s about connecting with others. I might stress how fun it will be to dance together and get to do the silly dances. My best wedding memories are dancing with my uncle who has no rhythm, not being put in the spotlight for my dancing skills.

wanted to pop in here. I used to swing dance (not competitively) but my favorite memories of swing dancing? Where everyone that was still there would gather in a group and do the "penguin dance" (arms held straight down, hands out at our sides and you sorta hop from foot to foot) it was fun, and a good memory with a great group of people. And like that wedding memory with your uncle, thats what this was about. Just being silly with my friends.

I have been swing dancing for over 20 years now.  :o  I have never heard of the penguin dance, but I need to find this now!!!